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Registering on The Batavian

By Howard B. Owens

The only reason registration on The Batavian is required is if you want to leave a comment or create a blog post or post a classified.

The majority of people who register never do any of the above, which is fine. I think many people register just because they like being affiliated with the site.

However, because registration is tied to participation, we require people to register using their real names. We expect people making comments and creating blog posts to do so using their real names.

I've got a good deal more sophisticated in how I spot registrations where people do not seem to be using their real names.

As it stands right now, I'm caught up on registration review and approval. If your account didn't get approved, the reason would be that I don't believe you were registering using your real name.

One reason I'm posting this is because I got a nasty e-mail from somebody this morning complaining because his attempts to register never get approved. Of course, the person was using a fake return e-mail address and not his real name to complain ... gee, wonder why his registration never gets approved ...

For all of those who did get approved -- welcome to The Batavian. Thank you for joining us.

Bernie Thompson

Howard,
I think The Batavian's registration policy is perfect.I am proud of my name so an alias is not needed ( Fantasy Sports doesn't count ).Maybe I'm wrong but usually when someone gives a fake name/email the postings are an attempt to down grade or slander an issue or another person. I have added my thoughts and opinions ( for what they are worth ) on a few occasions but that's just what they are "A Thought or A OPINION" and not a personal attack on anyone "Freedom Speech".

While I am at it here is an FYI;
The Batavian is my main source for Local News and Advertisement.Have noticed that for the most part important stories at posted on Our Batavian before that other site.So Kudos to you and all involved!
Hey I would sign my name but after all It does appear at the top of this post:)

Apr 24, 2010, 6:50pm Permalink
Buck Strang

Great place to get the news. Every thing I need is here news sports and peolpe that acually think, we may not always ageree but we have debate and that is a good thing!
Howard thanks for all the neat pics to i come back here prob 8 times a day to check!
We cleaned the trails at the county park today with the Cub scouts had a blast and i am tired

Apr 24, 2010, 9:13pm Permalink
Barbara A Nigro

You go Howard. Most of the time people don't want their real name posted because there are no facts behind their comments. I say, if you have something to put out their, take the credit or criticism. Be accountable. If more of this country would fess up to what they are up to with their deeds or comments maybe we would be more respected by the rest of the world. Keep up the good work. Barb

Apr 24, 2010, 9:16pm Permalink
Dominic Condello

BEST THING THAT HAPPENED TO ME SINCE I LEFT BATAVIA IN 1975. VERY COMFORTING TO BE IN THE BATAVIAN, THANKS AGAIN YOU ARE DOING A GREAT JOB!

Apr 25, 2010, 7:18am Permalink
Lorie Longhany

What I like most about this site is its honesty.

Lets face it, putting an opinion out in a debate that may be controversial is much easier with an anonymous user name. Sending a shot across the bow with a fake name, on this site, is dishonest. There are plenty of other sites that offer anonymity.

The few that have tried this multiple times are impostors. They can actually push a level of controversy without the consequence of using their own identity. We haven't seen it happen once, we've seen it happen multiple times. If the impostor is a leader in our community, creating alter egos to push an agenda makes the author an egregious liar. When I've seen politically charged, inside baseball comments written by an author I have never heard of -- first I become curious. Who is this? When no one has ever heard of him/her, they don't have a phone number, they're not registered to vote, it becomes clear that this person doesn't even exist. I would like to say to this person; dignify your opinions by owning them, even if your boss isn't "keen" on it. Use your own name or stay out of the debate. You would be respected so much more for your honest opinions, even if some of us might not agree.

Kudos to Howard for creating a site that's honest and enforcing those standards.

Apr 25, 2010, 4:05pm Permalink
Bea McManis

Posted by Lorie Longhany on April 25, 2010 - 4:05pm
What I like most about this site is its honesty.

creating alter egos to push an agenda makes the author an egregious liar

Unfortunately, there are people who when caught in a lie will just shrug and say, "Lying is what I do.". It takes a certain mindset to look someone straight in the eye and lie, or someone to write under an assumed name and lie about their own identity in order to further an agenda.

Apr 25, 2010, 4:54pm Permalink
Lorie Cook

I am lost by the last post but I will argue the flip side. There have been times I wanted to post on subjects that were very close to my heart but feared I would be labeled as a person. Went through enough of that in my life. I feel I should be able to give my opinion without fear but that will never happen in this small-minded, harriet's happenings kinda town. Sorry but someone's gotta fight the flip side...smile

Apr 25, 2010, 9:26pm Permalink
Colin Dentino

The goal of creating an environment where honest, logical, and open discussion takes place is something we can all agree on.

Mandating the use of real names does not promote honest debate. There is always the potential for the poster to feel embarrassed or potentially threatened by the repercussions of their post.

Emotional safety is the key to creating an environment to promote open and authentic communication. The poster must feel safe to express their thoughts and feelings without consequence.

If using a fake name alleviates one's fear of expressing oneself it should be encouraged.

Remember the goal is honest and open discussion. By keeping the names "real" you will never hear from everyone.

Monitor posts for logic, demeanor, and candor. Delete those that do not meet the quality standards for the site and aggressively deal with violations against the emotional safety of the poster.

Apr 25, 2010, 10:45pm Permalink
Chris Charvella

Colin and Lorie, I tend to agree with the spirit of what you're both saying, the problem is that we've had one of our county legislators post here under multiple fake names while discussing county business.

Because of that dishonesty from our elected officials, Howard's insistence on the use of real names is an absolute necessity in my opinion.

http://www.thebatavian.com/blogs/howard-owens/member-county-legislature…

Apr 26, 2010, 12:24am Permalink
Howard B. Owens

I've been running online communities of various types since the late 1990s. I think I've learned a few things along the way.

We have a pretty good community on The Batavian, if I do say so myself. We have a variety of viewpoints that for the most part are expressed in mature, rational ways. We have a core of regular contributors and a good number of people who pop into the conversation on an irregular basis (which is the standard participation model for any online community -- if you're interested in more on this, Google the "90-9-1 Rule").

Recently, we had polls on two pretty hot-button issues -- tea party and the confederate flag -- I dare say on just about any other news sites, those conversations would have quickly devolved into flame wars. Even if the conversations got a little pointed a couple of times, it was pretty mild compared to what can happen elsewhere.

I believe a good portion of why we've grown into a pretty stable community is, frankly, my own efforts. I'm involved in the conversations, I assert ownership over what goes on here, I take action when rules are broken, I've banned people who refuse to play nice, and to the best of my ability (not always perfect in this) I participate in a way that sets an example. These are all standard operating procedures for running online communities (lots of literature out there on this).

The success isn't all attributable to the real name policy.

But the policy helps. Sure, it's not everything, because we've had people get banned who were without a doubt using their real names. But most people will keep certain opinions to themselves because their real name will be attached to it, and I actually believe that's a healthy thing. There might be times when an anonymous opinion would be valuable, but the the negative consequences of allowing anonymous opinions far outweigh the benefits.

We do allow anonymous news tips, because that becomes something we can verify as factually accurate before publication.

But the real name policy isn't just about keeping the discussion civil. The other factor is, this is a news site. More, it's an advertiser-supported news site. That means credibility and standards are important.

News sites that allow anonymous comments, hurt, I believe their credibility. There was a case recently where the Cleveland Plains Dealer was allowing anonymous comments and a local judge was allegedly using her anonymity to comment on cases in front of her. The paper figured it out and unmasked her -- which caused a firestorm of controversy over the ethics of revealing the identity of a person who had essentially been granted anonymity.

The Cleveland Plains Dealer never should have allowed a potential news source the cover of anonymity. That put it in a tight ethical situation over the newsworthiness of this judge allegedly engaging in a breach of judicial standards.

When newspapers grant anonymity for a news story, there is a process and standards that should be maintained. At least the reporter, if not one to three editors, knows who the source is, and allowing an anonymous source into a news column is vetted carefully (or, at least, should be). With anonymous comments, you don't get that kind of journalistic checks-and-balance. The anonymous comment is just out there.

When a person is putting newsworthy information out there -- not all comments are just mere opinion, the potential is there for factual, or seemingly factual statements -- readers have the right to know who's making that statement so they can judge its authenticity and credibility for themselves accordingly. Even if it is opinion -- if for example, a legislator is making that statement -- the reader has an absolute right to know who that elected official is and judge for themselves why he is saying what he's saying.

I have a very strong conviction that it is unethical for news organizations to allow anonymous comments. The vast majority of online news sites affiliated with newspapers and broadcast stations do it. I believe it's wrong.

And most of those news outlets struggle far more than we do to sell online advertising. Now, there are other factors that contribute to our advertising success, but I think it's important that local businesses feel like they are supporting a credible local news site that has some level of standards for what it allows on the site.

I'm sure there are points and examples critics will be able to pick apart over things that we've done or allowed in the past, but for the most part, I think we've done a pretty good job in living up to what I'm saying here.

As for the notion that we would get more comments if we allowed anonymous comments -- a point that has been raised numerous times to me over the past two years -- all I can say is, The Batavian gets about 100 times the number comments that the Daily News does. They allow anonymous comments. It's hard for me to believe we are really losing out on comment traffic because of our policy.

Also, I got another angry e-mail this morning from somebody whom I told needed to register with his real name. One thing I've found to be true 100 percent of the time -- the only people who get angry over our real name policy are the people who want to fake it. And it so happens the kind of people who get angry over something like that are exactly the kind of people we don't need to participate.

But for anybody who wants to comment online in complete anonymity, it's very easy to set up your own anonymous blog at Word Press or Blogger. Go for it.

Further, I've had two people over the past couple of years feel like they're threatening me by saying they are going to start their own online forum and allow anonymous comments. My response is always: Go for it. If you're successful, it will only benefit The Batavian, because your participants will surely wind up linking to our stories, which is good for us.

In other words, for people who don't like The Batavian's policy, it's a big internet out there. You don't need us to have a place to spew anonymous diatribes.

Apr 26, 2010, 7:28am Permalink
Bea McManis

Posted by John Roach on April 26, 2010 - 6:48am
Chris,
the legislator was not the only one.....And the legislator won reelection.

John,
Are you condoning the legislator's use of an alias because he "won" the election? Do you feel what he posted here, under those assumed names, contributed to that win?

Apr 26, 2010, 8:00am Permalink
Karen Miconi

It is a Real Man, or Woman that uses his, or her Real Name, when commenting. It is a Coward, and a fony, that uses a fake name. They sure can talk the talk when useing a fake name, but can you walk the walk and comment using your real names? Time to MAN-UP and own your comments. With that comes respect, and credability...In My Opinion

Apr 26, 2010, 9:06am Permalink
JoAnne Rock

Posted by Lorie Longhany on April 25, 2010 - 4:05pm

When I've seen politically charged, inside baseball comments written by an author I have never heard of -- first I become curious. Who is this? When no one has ever heard of him/her, they don't have a phone number, they're not registered to vote, it becomes clear that this person doesn't even exist.

Not for nothing...but...that sounds a bit Orwellian to me. Do you routinely investigate contributors to The Batavian? Are contributors that don't meet your criteria considered illegimate?

I'm a fairly new contributor to the Batavian, so I have no idea if anyone has ever "heard" of me. I only have a cell phone, so my phone number is not listed.

Thank goodness I am registered to vote, otherwise I fear that I may not even exist.

Apr 26, 2010, 9:54am Permalink
Howard B. Owens

JoAnne, note the combination of "inside baseball" and "not heard of."

I can be pretty sure Lorie doesn't spend her time checking every new name on The Batavian.

But as Democratic County Chair, she does know, I imagine, most of the players in local politics, so when somebody starts sounding like they're deeply involved in local politics and she's never heard of that person, that makes her suspicious.

Apr 26, 2010, 10:09am Permalink
Bea McManis

JoAnne you need to know the history of one particular poster who choses fake names in order to post here. His writing style is unique. It isn't hard to figure out when he is at it again.

Apr 26, 2010, 11:00am Permalink
Kathleen Libby

So none of you know me. Let the pointless investigating begin. In my opinion adults have better things to do or should have better things to do than see a name they don't know and get in a tizzy looking for information on that person. The fact that people register under alias's does not mean they are a coward. It might mean their boss is in close relation with Howard and their opinion of Howard could hurt that relationship. Preventative maintenance if you will. The one thing I have always seen on this site is that if you don't agree with the majority then your comments are considered offensive and the majority gangs up on you and then the site admin (Howard) will either delete your comments or your account all together for no reason. I think that it's sort of sad that this site is now only a place where a bunch of older people, wanna-be politicians, and retired people with too much time on their hands come to to feel better about themselves by conversing with like-minded people without opposition because Howard does not allow it especially when the opposition has a good point. Way to go freedom of speech and expression. I'm not saying everyone on here is a yenta. There are a few people that almost always have something great to say. But they are far outweighed by narrow-mindedness. I don't expect this to be up for long before Howard deletes it along with my account even though I have not broken any rules what so ever. But if anyone would like to do a little research look me up on facebook and have a great time doing it. I've said what I needed to say and will not review this post just to avoid an inevitable arguement between me and the same 10-15 people that never have anything better to do. Have a nice day everyone.

Apr 26, 2010, 11:01am Permalink
Howard B. Owens

Kathleen, you make a couple of unfounded and unprovable accusations.

"The one thing I have always seen on this site is that if you don't agree with the majority then your comments are considered offensive"

First, find a majority of opinions on this site. We have both conservatives and liberals who participate, so I'm hard pressed to see how there's a "majority" opinion on much of anything.

The only comments that get deleted are, in fact, offensive.

"the majority gangs up on you and then the site admin (Howard) will either delete your comments or your account all together for no reason."

Again, there is no majority. And I've never seen anybody get ganged up on. And the only comments, again, that get deleted are the ones that DESERVE to get deleted because they break site rules. No comment has EVER been deleted because I or anybody else disagrees with the substance of the statement, only the offensive manner of expression. And the only reason accounts get blocked (never deleted) are either for use of a fake name, or repeated violations of the rules.

"a place where a bunch of older people, wanna-be politicians, and retired people with too much time on their hands"

About 25 percent of our readers are under 30, and some of them contribute regularly. Some of the biggest fans of the site that I meet in the community are no older than 25.

And anybody who wants to be a politician already is.

"conversing with like-minded people without opposition because Howard does not allow it especially when the opposition has a good point."

If I only allowed people who agree with my localist/libertarian view point, then there are at least a dozen contributors who would never get to comment on the site. In fact, I often find that my extreme localist opinion is very much in the minority -- like a minority of one.

"I have not broken any rules what so ever."

You haven't? Are you using your real name? I approved your account four days ago because an initial glance at the registration didn't make me suspicious. Now that I dig a little deeper, there's no record of a Katie Libby in Batavia. I won't delete your comment, but I am blocking your access until you e-mail me with proof of identity. And if you want to cry that I'm being unfair, I think that's how you wanted to set things up in the first place.

Apr 26, 2010, 11:20am Permalink
John Roach

Kathy,
If a person knows the rule that they have to use their real name, but are afraid for any reason, they have options.
1) Don't post
2) Go to another site

This is Howard's site, he pays for it with his money, so I think he can make the rules.

And you flat out lied about Howard not allowing opposition. He does all the time, you just have to be honest about who you are, not threaten anyone and be careful of the name calling. That shouldn't be too hard for you.

Apr 26, 2010, 11:30am Permalink

Howard,

I'm with on all points on both of your posts here. I find that ever since I first came to The Batavian, my standard of ownership is much higher. I don't even bother commenting on sites where people don't use their names. it's very easy to be imflammatory when there is no chance that anyone will ever know who did it.

I, for one, have disagreed with people lots of times. Chris and I have had some pretty vigorous debates on here, yet I still respect him and his opinions. (even if he's wrong most of the time :-) )

The ability to know that you are talking to Charlie, Bea or whomever, instead of BigDaddy68 or some other ridiculous avatar allows you to feel engaged with not only a name, but a real member of you community. I love this site the way it is and I wouldn't change it one bit.

Apr 26, 2010, 1:11pm Permalink
Lorie Cook

Point taken, John. I guess my motive it not as sinister as some...

And there we go with the name calling which is exactly my point. Why call anyone a coward?

Apr 26, 2010, 1:16pm Permalink
Gabor Deutsch

I don't understand what Facebook has to do with confirming a persons real name "But if anyone would like to do a little research look me up on Facebook and have a great time doing it" (Kathleen Libby).
It is too easy to set up an alias account there, why I have some really weird friends with names like : Seymore Butz and Al K. Holic ! Don't be surprised if I send you a friend request LOL !

Apr 26, 2010, 1:33pm Permalink
Howard B. Owens

Gabor, if I had found a FB account for Libby, and she had a bunch of local friends (as I do, so we would likely have mutual friends, or at least I'd recognize some names), that would have been confirmation enough for me.

I can't promise 100 percent that everybody is using a real name. I only promise my best effort to see that everybody does.

Apr 26, 2010, 2:02pm Permalink
Lorie Longhany

JoAnne, for the record, I have never randomly checked out any Batavian member. The names that I've checked out are unfamiliar and their comments have called out one of our candidates, an elected official, a Party member or myself. Like Howard said, it is natural to become suspicious when someone comes and comments on the minutia of a recent election. Who would know that stuff?

The last name was Michael Mancuso -- who commented on the LeRoy village elections. The only one by that name that I see in this county is my husband's former brother in law -- and it wasn't him. And why do these names pop up, with a comment or two and disappear never to be heard of again? With such strong opinions one would think that if they are who they say they are that they've just found a great place to debate.

I agree with Phil's comment. John Roach and I may not agree on anything political and we may debate an issue or two, but I have the utmost respect for John and was more than happy to help the Boy Scouts out when he called on me to ask if I could volunteer some time. And I whole heartily feel that way about almost everyone that engages in the debates here from every spectrum. If there wasn't two sides commenting there would be no debate and this site would be pretty boring.

I actually would gain a whole lot more respect if the person I'm referring to, who seems to have such a compulsion to comment under alias's, would just come out and join the debate under his own name. His comments aren't outlandish or mean spirited. He has every right to his opinion and probably has a lot to share. The continued use of alias's makes this person look a bit compulsive at best. Especially (if it is him) continuing this game after getting caught in such an embarrassing situation more than a year ago.

Apr 26, 2010, 2:26pm Permalink
bud prevost

One of the main reasons I frequent this sight is the real name requirement. I may not always agree with everyone, but I respect anyone willing to voice what they believe and think.

Apr 26, 2010, 2:55pm Permalink
John Roach

Bea,
No, I don't condone the legislator from LeRoy using a fake name. But he was singled out and made to sound like he was the only one, and of course he is not.

Apr 26, 2010, 2:56pm Permalink
Chris Charvella

John, the reason I singled him out was because he chose to discuss county business under his fake names. He was also, if I recall correctly, doing it from his home as well as Senator Ranzenhofer's office where he was employed.

When a private citizen chooses not to follow Howard's rules it doesn't really affect anyone but that individual. When an elected official does it, then I think we're in another realm altogether.

There has been a long line of public officials who have posted on this site to discuss policy and their own opinions and I have a deep respect for all of them whether I agree with their positions or not. Charlie Mallow, Tim Hens, Rosemary Christian, Bill Cox and quite a few others that don't jump to mind have all had the guts to tell us what they think without hiding behind an alias. Cheers to them, and jeers to the legislator from LeRoy, who just can't seem to stop himself from engaging in self-destructive behavior.

Apr 26, 2010, 3:34pm Permalink
Bea McManis

This thread proves one point. While we may disagree politically, we have become a family on this site. Attack unfairly, and you will incur the wrath of the entire family whether they be ultra conservative; bleeding heart liberal, old or young.
We all accepted the same rules. Use your own name; have an email address that can be verified, etc.
I may disagree with someone, on here, but I'll see them sooner or later at a meeting; a baseball game; a restaurant; or shopping. We coexist. Disagreeing on this site doesn't absolve us from being civil in social situations.
Someone told me that they consider this site a small town version of the TV show, "The View". We are a panel who offers our opinions and, at times, the dialogue can get heated.
I'd like to see a show of hands of how many have received a "nastygram" from Howard reminding us to watch our Ps & Qs. Even those are taken in stride and life returns to normal. By the way, they really aren't nasty, it is just a term for them.

Apr 26, 2010, 3:56pm Permalink
Chris Charvella

I've certainly received my share of emails from Howard about certain lines in my posts. Typically I'm happy to remove them. Every time Howard has asked me to edit something he's had good reason.

Apr 26, 2010, 4:03pm Permalink
Milly White

I love this site for local news and the differing opinions that people have. It is great to really see how others feel about hot local topics. I have not commented often on subjects but I feel the need I am not afraid to use my name. Taking ownership of your thoughts and opinions is being a responsible adult.

Apr 26, 2010, 6:06pm Permalink

Posted by Bea McManis on April 26, 2010 - 3:56pm
Someone told me that they consider this site a small town version of the TV show, "The View". We are a panel who offers our opinions and, at times, the dialogue can get heated.

That's awesome! There use to be a really bad show with just guys too. It had Mario Lopez and Danny Bonaducci or something.

What a funny analogy.

Apr 27, 2010, 1:18pm Permalink
Gabor Deutsch

I don't think you have seen Joy Behar's stand up Beth.
on a funnier note about Joy:

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Apr 27, 2010, 1:38pm Permalink
Beth Kinsley

I recently visited my parents in Florida and my father refused to watch the View. He said that they were all trying to talk over one another and you couldn't understand anything that any of them were saying. You would think with 7 daughters he would be used to that.

Apr 27, 2010, 1:54pm Permalink

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