Jeff,
How long do you think it will be before she changes to Democrat?

she already has except for the signature card

Jeff, first off, I totally reject the idea that a party can be betrayed. Principles and ethics are FAR more important than party affiliation.

Second, Hoffman was running as a Conservative, so endorsing the Democrat running against a non-Republican is hardly "betraying the party."

Third, Michael Steele, you know, the guy IN CHARGE of the Republican Party endorsed Bill Owens. None of the Republican establishment wanted anything to do with Hoffman.

You mean the principles and ethics of taking someones money in good faith and then less than a week later endorsing the opposition? You can't spin Scozzafavas actions as anything other than betrayal. In terms of political decorum, what she did undermines the process of party endorsement and financial support. Lifelong Republicans donated their money to her with the clear understanding that she would use it in a way to best maintain a GOP seat. Her endorsement of Owens was political treason. If this situation had played out with the parties switched, the national media would be portraying her as Benedict Arnold.
As far as Michael Steele, he was wrong as was Gingrich who at least has since come out and said he was wrong and understands that many conservative Republicans are rightfully angry with him. Finally, you summed up the problem in two words "Republican establishment"

By your logic then, she would have been equally wrong to endorse Hoffman.

But people give money to political candidates knowing that they may be backing a loser. They relinquish claim to that money once it's given (this is a free market system, remember). If she runs for office again, the proper course of action for people who didn't like what she did is not to back her either personally or financially (a free market reaction) rather than raise a ruckus now. She did what was within her right to do. Nobody owes blind loyalty to a political party.

And speaking of Hoffman and honesty -- you're defending a guy who pledged, gave his solemn word, not to run if he didn't get the GOP nomination. He broke that promise.

Howard cmon with the honesty thing..all these Politicians make promises and never keep them...When Clinton ran for senate she said she wouldn't run for another office,,such as president..

Mark, I'm just pointing out to Jeff that you can't throw stones the assemblywoman when there is nothing admirable about Hoffman.

Howard, go back and read my posts and tell me at what point I was defending Hoffman. I don't know the guy, I have been reacting to what the polls have said. Republicans and Conservatives are both to the right as Democrats and Liberals are both to the left. If Scozzafava had endorsed Hoffman it probably would have upset some of her moderate supporters yes, but endorsing Owens was a complete jump to the other side so it is not the same. You also say that there is nothing admirable about Hoffman and defend Scozzafava to the end. Your knowledge of the people and politics of the Watertown area seems to run very deep so you must know more than I about the players involved.
Once someone accepts campaign money from a party then yes, they do owe that party loyalty. Accepting advertising sponsored by NRC means that individuals who contribute to the NRC rightly expect that their contributions will further the cause of the GOP, not Democrats.
I don't know if you are registered with and/or support a political party, but if you supported that party financially in order for them to aid candidates in securing seats for your party, you would consider it betrayal for a recipient of that money to then endorse a candidate on the other side of the political spectrum.

Jeff how do you think the republicans that supported Alan Spector of Pa..He switched to democrat half way through his term..I agree with you they should give all the money they raised under the party flag back...They seem like phoneys to me...

What about those who run for city council as one party, then switch. Should they give the money back too? Funny, but most of you voted for those who switched. Guess they aren't phonies.

Bea,
I don't live in the city or in Pennsylvania.

Bea,
I believe the city Democrats this year took a measure to protect against that. I was told that you had to sign a paper that if you switched, you pay back any party money given you for the election.

Maybe Charlie can clear that up. I think it's a good idea if they did.

Jeff,
As usual, the point is, if the shoe were on the other foot and it was a Democrat in NY23 who turned and gave the support to the other side, this conversation wouldn't be happening.

John,
Yes, they did have to sign a document to that effect. Which I find the right thing to do.
That was THIS year. What about those who switched after taking office before this? That money is given in good faith, regardless of the party involved. Should it be returned? Yes.
However, was there outrage when elected officials switched parties in Batavia? Did the Republicans stand on a soapbox and insist they return the money they received from the Democratic Party?

Bea, There must of been outrage because they did take measures to stop this....

Actually, I believe it would. I have not shown myself to ignore wrong even when it comes from those on "my side" and give credit when it is due those on the "other side". While we are on that topic, I don't know if you read about the debate that was being planned between Presidents GW Bush and Clinton. As the hype increased, President Clinton backed out. Fox jumped all over it as weakness or fear on President Clinton's part. I beleive it was out of class that he backed out as the hype began to resemble a pay-per-view wrestling match and truly believe President Bush would have eventually done the same. I have found President Clinton to be one of our best "elder statesman" as an ex-President. His work with President GHW Bush after the tsunami and other global relief efforts are to be commended. I especially admired his role(and said so in blogs on this site) in the release of the American women from North Korea. He brought them home quietly and without the need to glad hand Kim Jong Il or to mug the camera when he got home, unlike Al Gore.
Although I disagreed with some of his politics and certainly his shenanigans in the Oval Office, he has been a pleasant surprise as an ex-Presidnet and ambassador for the US.

Mark,
If I recall correctly, she made that promise during her first run for the Senate when everyone was calling her a carpetbagger. She kept her promise and worked hard for New York State, including Western New York.
I don't recall her making that statement during the next campaign. If I'm wrong, perhaps you can find it.

Jeff,
I'm not specifically addressing all of this to you, but in general. President Clinton has made the ranks of elder statesman. He is doing a good job.
PS: Thank you, so much, for understanding why I couldn't possibly get too involved in the politics of Election Day.
My friend passed early in the morning on Nov. 3. He was kept on life support so that his organs could be harvested. He will be missed. http://thebatavian.com/blogs/bea/memory-louis/10653

Bea, sorry for your loss. Sounds like Louis was quite the adventurer and now can pass it on through his donations. Life's final gift, hope for others.

Jeff, I've been both a Republican and Democrat in my life, but for the past 15 years at least, I've been a "decline to state" (in California) and a "blank" (in New York).

I pretty much detest partisan politics.

And my reaction to this is purely as a "localist." Anybody who stands up for local interest above party or nationalism is a hero to me. I believe Scozzavava put the interests of her district and her community a head of the Republican Party, and that was 100 percent the right thing to do. Regardless of her degree of conservatism, her district should come first. She owed nothing to Hoffman or the Republican Party compared to the interest of her district, and endorsing a Democrat makes her neither a turncoat nor a liberal and it would be illogical to draw any conclusion that she's more liberal than conservative from her endorsement. It was about defeating a guy who shouldn't even have been in the race.

A guy named John Warren left this comment on The Rural Blog, and I like the way he puts it: "Hoffman (and his big media buddies) tried to make it a race on bogus national issues and missed the fact that it was a race about representing local people nationally, not the other way around."

If quitting after you've spent someone elses money is standing up for the locals then Sarah Palin must be your no. 1 choice for the White House in 2012

Sarah Palin quit to pursue her own egotistical goals, so I don't see the comparison with Scozzavava.

I would consider your argument of this great ethical and principled woman if she had stayed in the race and said I will continue to fight for the people who put me here and for my constituents. Palin and Scozzafava both quit for different surface reasons but the fact remains that they each committed to represent a group of people, accepted their financial support and when the going got tough, they quit.

If she stayed in the race, she might have drained votes from Owens, and that would have enabled Hoffman to win. How is that doing a good thing for the NY23. That would have been evil.

Bea,
When some Republicans on city council became Democrats, yes, the Republicans complained.

Same as when Democrats on city council changed to Republican, the Democrats complained.

This conversation about local city council candidates who switch is silly at best. It’s also funny that this conversation started "out of the blue" two hours after I switched to an independent. As for money I used to run, I just finished paying it off. I raised the small amount I was given and paid dearly for the other 90% rest out of my own nest egg.

You’re all missing a very important point that was made about our local parties. Politics should be about issues and parties should support issues. A party should gather candidates that support a platform of issues. That is NOT how our local parties are formed or run. There are NO local issues that either party supports and everyone on Council is all over the place on issues. Your political affiliation in city politics is built on whose social club you would like to attend. Unless people like Chris are willing to step up and change the basis of our local parties that is what we have right now. For better or worse our local political parties are actually social clubs.

I'm your huckleberry Charlie. As you know, I've already started that work and I intend to continue.

It isn't my intention to unleash the rabidly drooling partisan in all committee members, but I will continue to insist that party members recall why we exist in the first place.

Charlie, I think its great that you switched to an independant. It tells me that for you, its not about the party lines.
All I wish is that city council will work together as a TEAM. Imagine that, dropping their poltical views, bickering, and making decisions for the greater good of their community, not themselves.
I think during your term you were trying to please everyone else, instead of doing you. You were so busy putting out fires, it took you away from the real job. Live and Learn Right?
I hope our new council realizes the job set before them and the seriousness of the titles given. They will be under the spotlight, and I think we all expect change. No More Business as Usual. This is not a social club, its Batavia City Council, making decisions for the city of Batavia, and its residents, not about being a "YES BOY" for all their Gumbadies. I also hope council addresses the "Complaint" against Jason, and stop waisting time blaming the "Leaker", and the complaintant. I wont forget, will you?
Ps. I will be forever suspicious
of the voting process this year,for
more than a few reasons.
What happened to the computer tallying
the votes? From what I undertstand,
it was down for a time?? Is that
true?

Posted by Charlie Mallow on November 6, 2009 - 8:16am
This conversation about local city council candidates who switch is silly at best. It’s also funny that this conversation started "out of the blue" two hours after I switched to an independent.

This is the first I heard about you switching. Any comments I made were a reaction to the comments about NY23.
Good luck with your new affiliation.

Posted by Chris Charvella on November 6, 2009 - 9:02am
I'm your huckleberry Charlie. As you know, I've already started that work and I intend to continue.

It isn't my intention to unleash the rabidly drooling partisan in all committee members, but I will continue to insist that party members recall why we exist in the first place.

I guess I'm a huckelberry, too. Right on, Chris!

Thank you, Bea. Although, there is no luck needed to be an independent. Good luck to my Democrat friends on the committee hopefully, we can see some more focus on issues next time.

Chris better a huckleberry than a Huckabee. Good luck and stay involved.

Charlie,
This had nothing to do with you, and you know it. It was about the upstate contest and if the republican candidate who then backed the democrat, would/might switch.

While I expected you to change party, this is the first I have heard about it also.

I'll be involved, but I'm going to be focusing on some of the charity work we started this summer, the USO in particular. Anyone interested in helping us do some fundraising for a great organization should get in touch with me at:

charvellac@rochester.rr.com

Good stuff Chris! I've done some fundraisers with the USO while I was in Germany and it was great! Let me know what kind of events that you are going to do!

Posted by Chris Charvella on November 6, 2009 - 10:10am
I'll be involved, but I'm going to be focusing on some of the charity work we started this summer, the USO in particular. Anyone interested in helping us do some fundraising for a great organization should get in touch with me at:


Check your email, Chris :)