Since it is mostly an internal battle for control of the Republican Party, and I'm not a Republican, it does not represent me or any other not-Republicans no matter how much Republicans want us to think it does.
Howard - I am unsure how else to reach you. Re: polls. I click on my choice, but it doesn't seem that the "vote" button works. I am able to view results. Is my vote being counted? Thanks.
Since the Tea Party movement started outside of the GOP and retains a good number of independent followers, I don't see it as just a GOP thing. It's gotten hijacked by the GOP, however.
The tea party is nothing new. It's simply the extreme wing of the Republican Party. Unfortunately for moderate Republicans they've been hijacked and in many cases are left with candidates that are extreme and bizarre. Christine "I am not a witch" O'Donnell, Sharron "I've got juice" Angle, and...drum roll..... our very own NY State candidate for governor, Carl "I'll take you out" Paladino.
It's funny that Howard believes that the Tea Party was hijacked by the GOP and Lorie believes that the GOP was hijacked by the Tea Pary. Exact opposites. Either of you care to explain your reasoning?
I find it odd that the same Tea Partiers who complain about wasteful government spending and people who don't pay their taxes (immigrants) tend to be overwhelmingly pro-military and religious...you know, considering the Pentagon is the most bloated, wasteful branch of the government, and churches don't pay taxes.
JoAnne, The original Tea Party leaders were not even necessarily Republicans and were not leaders in the party. People like Sarah Palin jumped on the bandwagon.
Ethan, its not odd, it is purpose, and the 5%ers are republicans disguised as a new party.They should call themselves the "I don't want to pay my fair share party".
Or "LEAVE MY UNFAIR TAX BREAKS ALONE PARTY" or the "whats in it for me party" or the "stamp out all social program party" Its the same old republican flavor in a new wrapper.
The Tea Party is only as new as its name. Disenfranchised voters have withstood every convention- usually attached to a figurehead (or in some cases, a figure): Jerry Brown had Take Back America, John Anderson- Alternative for a Better America, Perot started the Reform Party urging Ross for Boss, Newt Gingrich pledged a Contract With America, George Wallace (ironic) rallied the middle class to Stand Up for America and Lyndon LaRouche was the cult of personality.
News out of Massachusetts: the Whig Party is back.
Some movements may be actual sideshows; all are treated as such. As with any group lacking in organization, brimming with enthusiasm (angst); the potential for pratfalls attracts microphones and cameras to those spokespersons who most resemble contestants vying for Bob Barker's attention.
As noted, the same bus that drove sharecroppers into town on election day is eager to give the Tea Party a ride.
This movement is just the resurrection of Nixon's Southern Strategy.
This video shows a home town parade with a Tea Party group in Naches Washington. It has a white guy with an Obama mask whipping the white guy that is pulling the wagon.
Judge for yourself. There are too many samples of similar presentations by the Tea Party to pass this off as a few rogue racists.
The emperor has no clothes, the jig is up, there are just too many youtube videos. For those that are concerned with taxes and the constitution and reject the racist elements of the Tea Party I would recommend starting a separate group.
Ethan: Since the Tea Party is a decentralized grass roots movement with no national leader, there is no national platform. While most Tea Party activists believe in lower taxes, smaller government and cutting spending, immigration reform is one issue that they don't all agree on. BTW, what is wrong with complaining about wasteful govt spending, people that don't pay their taxes(not just illegal immigrants), supporting our military and being religious?
Howard: I don't know any statistics, but I think a lot of Tea Party activists consider themselves Constitutional Conservatives or some similar variation. Isn't jumping on the bandwagon the way everyone joins the Tea Party?
Frank: Well, Mr. "the Islamic religion should be outlawed"...I have no comment on your rhetoric.
Lorrie talks about Tea party candidates being bizarre and extreme she must have forgotten what state she lives in. Do I need to bring out the list of stellar individuals we have elected Spitzer, Bruno, Massa, Hevesi, and Rangel this is just a few of the bizarre and extreme people we have had or have in office. What do they all have in common they are career politicians. Maybe we need a new breed of person in office maybe what the Tea party movement is really all about is that we the voters in this state and country are getting tired of the Bulls#@% and it doesn't matter if they are republican, democrats conservative, liberal or my preference moderate they all seem to be out for themselves. So let's start throwing them out one by one till the message is heard on both sides loud and clear.
JoAnne- I never mentioned race... Whatever are you referring to? Sharecroppers? ...Not a race-exclusive term; one of my grand-uncles was a tenant farmer.
Yes Joanne, any religion that calls for the death of infidels, or non-believers is a terrorist organization, in my opinion.
Another name for the party could be, "the we're not really racist, so just ignore the proof party".
Yes CM, I remember your post about the southern flag well. You described your shame with your family's historic association with slavery which is why you joined the Southern Poverty Law Center.
Lorie, do you, in all honesty, believe that the driving force behind the Tea Party is racism or more along the lines of EVERY party has a few crackpots that don't know how to express their opinion? This whole broad brush thing is growing very old.
JoAnne, lets be honest here. There are WAY more than a few. That video I put up from a small town parade is chuck full of people. Unfortunately the prevalence and frequency of the racial undertones requires a broad brush.
Timothy, Spitzer is now on CNN, Bruno is headed for jail, Massa was gone almost immediately, Hevesi plead guilty yesterday and the voters in Rangel's district gave him another shot in spite of his ethics investigation. I'm not giving any of them a pass. All but one in your list is out of public life. I was referring to the class of 2010 candidates that are all over our TV screens.
Obviously the democrates are ruining this country, We need the republicans to take over and put an end to this ongoing nightmare. VOTE FOR PALADINO!!!!!!!!!!
Tim, you're right on the money, so I want to start my own party, The "pamp" party,(piss and moan party) because there is no way in hell we can get rid of these career politicians, there is to much divide between the haves, and have nots, so we can piss and moan and watch nothing change. Look at the results of the poll, pretty evenly divided at this point. Until we can all agree on a direction, and set of goals for what direction this country should take, nothing is going to change.
I hate to think like a fatalist, but at some point in the very near future,I can see civil unrest, and worst yet, national guardsmen called in to keep the peace. I don't want to even think about what happens after that.
I beleive we have got to find a middle ground, that can benefit all walks of life, as a starting point to bring about change. The two parties obviously don't want to see that happen, thats why they ram their agendas down our throats, keep the fight alive, make sure the sheeple don't ever unite for a common goal, they know all to well if that were to happen, their careers are over.
Yes Lorie, chuck full of 20 or so crackpots that were probably all related.
How is it that Obama got elected with such a racist electorate? Or did everyone just wake up one day and say OMG, did we just elect a black man? We must form a racist organization to unseat him? We'll call it the Tea Party.
The truth is, Obama promised change and didn't deliver. People are pissed that the Democratic Party toed, or more accurately, were dragged through the party line instead of listening to their constituents. That's why the Tea Party came into existence. It has nothing to do with racism no matter how much you wish it did. No amount of manufactured outrage can change the fact that the Democratic Majority failed to represent the will of the people. Now the will of the people are taking the matter into their own hands.
Joanne, you are good at research, why not do a search and discover how much money, that is being spent now, was approved during the years when the GOP held the majority in the House, Senate and the White House. You'd be surprised to learn that we are suffering the decisions made then. You might also be surprised to learn that not all of that was for the Bush wars. That GOP majority voted to increase money for many of the social programs that the Republicans are now pretending to abhor.
Change? How do you change the ill effects of eight years in less than two? What magic wand do you expect to be waved.
JoAnne, no, I do not think you are a racist, and have no reason to believe you are a racist. Political affiliations don't mean one agrees blindly to all party agenda, or political views. I hope I didn't imply you were a racist, if I did it was unintentional, and I would definately apologize.
I can guarantee you one thing for sure JoAnne, none of the 11% of the Tea Party folks voted for Obama -- even before there was such a group.
He won an overwhelming majority of the electorate because he had a platform to address issues that mattered to the majority of the people.
JoAnne, I'm actually very proud of Obama's accomplishments and believe that he has brought change. When he campaigned he promised that we would bring combat troops out of Iraq... and he did. He promised to reform health care ... and he did, he promised a tax break for the middle class...and he did. There's a lot more and I like politifact.com. It is a non partisan fact checking site. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/
There are few things that I would have liked to see changed that haven't -- one being the closing of Guantanamo, but for the most part I am very happy with President Obama.
Mike, I exaggerated the majority a bit. A little less than a landslide but a very healthy victory. :)
Howard, my choice for health care was public funding - medicare for all, but that's not what Obama ran on. I'm hoping, like the civil rights legislation in the 60's, that this is the beginning of a much more comprehensive reform down the road.
You got the gist of it, JoAnne- wrong family, though. The Macon family, my mother's progeny, owned slaves. Uncle Frank, tenant farmer, was a Barons; my father's family. And yes, I felt membership in the SPLC was fair reparation. ...None of which sheds light on your comment suggesting I made issue of race.
We also are now hearing about waivers being given to certain groups to hold off on the health care mandates and we are not talking about the Mom & Pop Businesses we are talking huge companies and unions. so just like everything else Health care will be pushed on only the few who can not afford it
No exaggeration there, Mike. The promises kept are facts not opinion. There are a lot of promises stalled and a few promises broken, but for the most part this president has accomplished quite a bit in 20 months under very difficult circumstances.
Bea...please don't think for one minute that I am laying all of the country's woes in Obama's lap. It comes as no surprise to me that past admnistration's have contributed plenty to the problems facing America. The tipping point for me was the Health Care Reform Bill and it has been downhill from there. It all boils down to ideology. I simply don't subscribe to Obama's view for the direction of our country.
Frank...no apology necessary
Lorie...I'm glad that you are happy with President Obama, but your clairvoyant comment above..."I can guarantee you one thing for sure JoAnne, none of the 11% of the Tea Party folks voted for Obama -- even before there was such a group" is as ridiculous as the birther argument. P.S - There's no such thing as a non-partisan fact checking site.
CM - I apologize for misinterpreting your comment.
Ok JoAnne, Let me rephrase my statement and make it my personal opinion. It is my opinion, and I would bet dollars to donuts, that there are very few, if any, Tea Party folks who voted for President Obama. There.
PS How do you know that politifact.com or factcheck.org are partisan? They seem to rate the facts equally and fairly on both sides. Did you check the owners or shareholders for political affiliations or campaign contributions to come up with this statement?
Added from factcheck.org Our Mission
"We are a nonpartisan, nonprofit "consumer advocate" for voters that aims to reduce the level of deception and confusion in U.S. politics. We monitor the factual accuracy of what is said by major U.S. political players in the form of TV ads, debates, speeches, interviews and news releases. Our goal is to apply the best practices of both journalism and scholarship, and to increase public knowledge and understanding.
FactCheck.org is a project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania. The APPC was established by publisher and philanthropist Walter Annenberg to create a community of scholars within the University of Pennsylvania that would address public policy issues at the local, state and federal levels."
And from politifact.com
PolitiFact is a project of the St. Petersburg Times to help you find the truth in politics.
Every day, reporters and researchers from the Times examine statements by members of Congress, the president, cabinet secretaries, lobbyists, people who testify before Congress and anyone else who speaks up in Washington. We research their statements and then rate the accuracy on our Truth-O-Meter – True, Mostly True, Half True, Barely True and False. The most ridiculous falsehoods get our lowest rating, Pants on Fire.
Bottom line: the so-called Tea Party is just trying to fire up people who normally don't vote in mid-term years, by using their frustration to elect Republicans so as to gain control of one or maybe both houses in Washington, thereby causing Obama to have to compromise with them; which then changes nothing, maintains the ole status quo, and the middle class average person gets screwed. And No, I don't think having Democrats control the White House, Senate and H O R is working, stale-mate ain't gonna get it either. You want things to change, Stop supporting and voting for Demicans and Republocrats, regardless of their rhetoric. Get people who are disillusioned with the process to go and vote for independents and other party candidates. If the voter turnout when all this hoopla is over turns out to be more than 50% across the country, I'll wear an elephant head and donkey's ass down main street.
I mentioned Saul Alinsky a few days ago and by the comments made about the Tea Party, his legacy lives on in Batavia. And Bea, Democrats have been in charge of spending for the last 4 years, not 2.
"to elect Republicans so as to gain control of one or maybe both houses in Washington, thereby causing Obama to have to compromise with them; which then changes nothing"
Which changes nothing Dave? Its going to change ALOT. Once the good guys win in a couple months and take control it will balance things out and keep that idiot in the white house in check. Right now he can do whatever he wants and his cronies in the house just follow like lemmings. Things will change Dave, and for the better.
Frank- One thing i will agree with you on, and you make a real good point....The civil unrest thing. I was just having a conversation with someone at work about this yesterday. We both think there will be problems come election day, we really do. So many people on both sides are so fed up and so angry, that you could very well see some get out of hand. I think its extremely sad and pathetic, but very possible. Its no secret that people dont come much more right wing conservative than me, and I am VERY angry at the road this country is going down and the fool in the white house who is driving, but to harm another human being over it? I hope and PRAY I am wrong, but somewhere sometime things are going to come to a boiling point, and I fear it will be election day.
So whether your a Dem or Rep, grab your shield, put on your suit of armor, grab your sword (although a pencil works better) and fill in the little circles for the people you think are best in a couple months and be thankful that you have the right to do so. (Can you hear the patriotic music playing in the background?) :)
Lorie, I checked out Factcheck.org a while back and found that the Annenberg Foundation is a major donor to the William J. Clinton Foundation. I found a couple of their explanations to be a little too spin-friendly.
I had never heard of Politifact.com until you mentioned it. I only looked at it briefly, but their site appears more legit than Factcheck. I prefer to do my own fact checking, so I don't use those types of sites.
FYI: If anyone else likes to do their own fact checking, I would recommend a site called muckety.com. It maps relationships between people and organizations. It is a very cool interactive site.
Dave,the other parties candidates' don't always align with my core values and beliefs? I'm not going to vote for someone if I don't agree with most of their platform.
Lorie, as for Mr. Obama bringing the troops home from Iraq, well you may be surprised to find out that the date of withdrawal of American troops was in place before Mr. Obama took Office. So he did nothing in regard to bringing the troops home from Iraq. All he did was rubber stamp the existing policy just like he did with the bail out of the banking industry.
JoAnne, "I'm not going to vote for someone if I don't agree with most of their platform." I understand that, however the problem is that most of the time, they have no intention of doing the things laid out in their platform. If we continue voting for the same-o D's or R's, it emboldens them to keep on lying.
Did Howard convert you to libertarianism? :) For the record it was an interesting read, I still love the elephant, but it was a very interesting read none the less Dave. Thanks
You're welcome, Tim. Howard and i have met only once about a month ago and very briefly. Ronald Reagan, Both George Bush I & II, Bill & Hilary Clinton, Barack Obama, Al Gore, etc etc converted me to Libertarianism.
Tim, keep readin' buddy. The light will come on for you. In the words of the famous philosopher, Red Green: "We're all in this together, and I'm pullin' for you"
I don't speak for anyone but myself. As distasteful as I find anyone who would protest a funeral for any reason and carry signs telling the family of the deceased that God wanted them dead, they have that right. I'll admit, if I saw it happening I can't honestly say I wouldn't confront the Westboro people. It makes me angry just thinking about it. For the record, I feel the same way about those who'd burn an American flag in protest of whatever. It would upset me greatly, if I saw it. I might not control myself enough to not mix it up with them. Anyone who protests a servicepersons funeral or burns our flag, in my opinion is an ass; I will defend the right to be an ass. I'm not perfect or all that smart by any stretch of imagination, our Constitution, however is a lot closer to perfect and brilliant. We can't pick and choose who has what right.
That's the best I can do, JoAnne
I appreciate your honesty Dave. I guess this is typical of the issues I have with the Libertarian Party (no offense intended) and why I can't support them.
BTW, I took the quiz on the website...I'm not a libertarian...:)
Howard, health care premiums have been skyrocketing long before anyone even heard of Obama.
I personally don't beleive any political party will ever be able to reform health care.It has to start internally, there is way to much waste in hospital care.
Look at your last bill, check out what you are charged for, you would be surprised. When a Dr. orders a drug, he may want 5mg, but the drug only comes in 10mg viles, guess where the other 5mg's go, down the drain, and the insurance co. is billed for 10 mg. Some hospitals staff RN's to do aide work, there is a huge difference in wages between an RN and an aide. The health care providers don't care, they just bill the insurance co..
And as long as the insurance co.s keep paying, nothing will change. Just my .02 on the issue.
It is quite ironic that the Tea Party folks while loathing Alinsky actually have embraced his organizing tactics. Tea Party leader Michael Patrick Leahy even wrote a book titled "Rules for Conservative Radicals: Lessons from Saul Alinsky the Tea Party Movement and the Apostle Paul in the Age of Collaborative Technologies".
The humble beginnings of the right wing's use of Alinsky style protesting in this age of the Tea Party may have started with the 2000 election recount "dog and pony show" orchestrated by Roger Stone. The "protesters" filled up the board of election office with actual Republican staffers to scream foul and disrupt as loud as they could. The public viewed it as a citizen protest but it wasn't, it was a mob of paid operatives. The tactics were then implemented nationwide during last summer's town hall meetings where instructions to yell and disrupt were talking points distributed to protesters by groups like Freedom Works and the health care lobbies.
Alinsky -- alive and well in the Tea Party! Funny how history always repeats only this is like the Ying and the Yang. 1960's radical left -- 2000's radical right. Fun to be old enough to live through both these turbulent time periods.
I don't consider the $2,975,000 lease on name right to Blue Cross arena a justifiable health care expense.
February reports filed with the Security and Exchange Commission – WellPoint Inc., UnitedHealth Group, Cigna Corp., Aetna Inc. and Humana Inc. posted combined profits of $12.2 billion, a 56% increase over calendar year 2008.
During the same period of time, the big five insurers covered 2.7 million fewer Americans. ...The result of insurance companies purging their most costly customers, like small businesses with older workers- although, the industry blames the drop on former customers unable to afford premiums due to the recession.
Health insurers in general have reduced the percentage of their premiums spent on medical care, placing revenue in the administrative cost and profit columns.
Insurers also shuffle customers to public programs like Medicare Advantage, in which the federal government pays private insurers 14 percent more than it pays Medicare to cover the same people.
The industry’s long-term strategy is to shift millions of older, sicker and lower-income customers to taxpayer-supported programs, like Medicaid and state subsidized alternatives.
And as the mandatory child coverage provision of the new Health Insurance Bill goes into effect, many insurers have stopped offering children-only policies to diminish their need to comply.
Despite the billions that private insurers spent lobbying against public-funded health care, their strategy involves relocating customers with medical bills to public subsidized programs. This falls under the category of "having your cake and eating it too."
While insurance premium payers are consigned to pay for insurance when they are healthy, they expect their claims to be handled when bills come due. Insurance companies, on the other hand, seem only interested in collecting premiums from healthy customers. It may be a profit-practical philosophy, but it defies the inferred contract with the customer. In fact it defies the whole premise of the contract. The cliche that should be made evident to the industry: "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen."
There is ample room for repair when it comes to containing the cost of health care. Doctors order unnecessary tests, pharmaceutical company R/D is underwritten by government- still the public gets billed again at the drug store, fraud and negligence... The bottom line, the collective worry for these abuses should not be shouldered by the unfortunate patient who is on his/her back in a hospital bed.
Since it is mostly an
Since it is mostly an internal battle for control of the Republican Party, and I'm not a Republican, it does not represent me or any other not-Republicans no matter how much Republicans want us to think it does.
Howard - I am unsure how else
Howard - I am unsure how else to reach you. Re: polls. I click on my choice, but it doesn't seem that the "vote" button works. I am able to view results. Is my vote being counted? Thanks.
Lisa, that's sounds like an
Lisa,
that's sounds like an odd problem. Since the poll code comes from a third party (Poll Daddy), I really have no control of it.
Since the Tea Party movement
Since the Tea Party movement started outside of the GOP and retains a good number of independent followers, I don't see it as just a GOP thing. It's gotten hijacked by the GOP, however.
Why then, do I never see a
Why then, do I never see a candidate described in the media as "Tea Party Backed" who is not a Republican?
Because Dave, as Howard said
Because Dave, as Howard said it has gotten hijacked by the gop. Pay attention.
The tea party is nothing new.
The tea party is nothing new. It's simply the extreme wing of the Republican Party. Unfortunately for moderate Republicans they've been hijacked and in many cases are left with candidates that are extreme and bizarre. Christine "I am not a witch" O'Donnell, Sharron "I've got juice" Angle, and...drum roll..... our very own NY State candidate for governor, Carl "I'll take you out" Paladino.
If nothing else it certainly is entertaining.
Pay attention? Am I being
Pay attention? Am I being duped again by the liberal biased media, Jeremiah? I hate when they do that.
It's funny that Howard
It's funny that Howard believes that the Tea Party was hijacked by the GOP and Lorie believes that the GOP was hijacked by the Tea Pary. Exact opposites. Either of you care to explain your reasoning?
double post
double post
JoAnne, Some would say the
JoAnne,
Some would say the Democrats were hijacked by the extreme left wing of their party, which is why some are leaving for unaffiliated.
Good point John.
Good point John.
I find it odd that the same
I find it odd that the same Tea Partiers who complain about wasteful government spending and people who don't pay their taxes (immigrants) tend to be overwhelmingly pro-military and religious...you know, considering the Pentagon is the most bloated, wasteful branch of the government, and churches don't pay taxes.
JoAnne, The original Tea
JoAnne, The original Tea Party leaders were not even necessarily Republicans and were not leaders in the party. People like Sarah Palin jumped on the bandwagon.
Ethan, Defense is outlined in
Ethan,
Defense is outlined in the constitution. Most of the program we complain about, are not.
Ethan, its not odd, it is
Ethan, its not odd, it is purpose, and the 5%ers are republicans disguised as a new party.They should call themselves the "I don't want to pay my fair share party".
Or "LEAVE MY UNFAIR TAX BREAKS ALONE PARTY" or the "whats in it for me party" or the "stamp out all social program party" Its the same old republican flavor in a new wrapper.
The Tea Party is only as new
The Tea Party is only as new as its name. Disenfranchised voters have withstood every convention- usually attached to a figurehead (or in some cases, a figure): Jerry Brown had Take Back America, John Anderson- Alternative for a Better America, Perot started the Reform Party urging Ross for Boss, Newt Gingrich pledged a Contract With America, George Wallace (ironic) rallied the middle class to Stand Up for America and Lyndon LaRouche was the cult of personality.
News out of Massachusetts: the Whig Party is back.
Some movements may be actual sideshows; all are treated as such. As with any group lacking in organization, brimming with enthusiasm (angst); the potential for pratfalls attracts microphones and cameras to those spokespersons who most resemble contestants vying for Bob Barker's attention.
As noted, the same bus that drove sharecroppers into town on election day is eager to give the Tea Party a ride.
Amen,CM
Amen,CM
This movement is just the
This movement is just the resurrection of Nixon's Southern Strategy.
This video shows a home town parade with a Tea Party group in Naches Washington. It has a white guy with an Obama mask whipping the white guy that is pulling the wagon.
Judge for yourself. There are too many samples of similar presentations by the Tea Party to pass this off as a few rogue racists.
The emperor has no clothes, the jig is up, there are just too many youtube videos. For those that are concerned with taxes and the constitution and reject the racist elements of the Tea Party I would recommend starting a separate group.
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Ethan: Since the Tea Party is
Ethan: Since the Tea Party is a decentralized grass roots movement with no national leader, there is no national platform. While most Tea Party activists believe in lower taxes, smaller government and cutting spending, immigration reform is one issue that they don't all agree on. BTW, what is wrong with complaining about wasteful govt spending, people that don't pay their taxes(not just illegal immigrants), supporting our military and being religious?
Howard: I don't know any statistics, but I think a lot of Tea Party activists consider themselves Constitutional Conservatives or some similar variation. Isn't jumping on the bandwagon the way everyone joins the Tea Party?
Frank: Well, Mr. "the Islamic religion should be outlawed"...I have no comment on your rhetoric.
CM: The racist card...really?
Lorrie talks about Tea party
Lorrie talks about Tea party candidates being bizarre and extreme she must have forgotten what state she lives in. Do I need to bring out the list of stellar individuals we have elected Spitzer, Bruno, Massa, Hevesi, and Rangel this is just a few of the bizarre and extreme people we have had or have in office. What do they all have in common they are career politicians. Maybe we need a new breed of person in office maybe what the Tea party movement is really all about is that we the voters in this state and country are getting tired of the Bulls#@% and it doesn't matter if they are republican, democrats conservative, liberal or my preference moderate they all seem to be out for themselves. So let's start throwing them out one by one till the message is heard on both sides loud and clear.
JoAnne- I never mentioned
JoAnne- I never mentioned race... Whatever are you referring to? Sharecroppers? ...Not a race-exclusive term; one of my grand-uncles was a tenant farmer.
Yes Joanne, any religion that
Yes Joanne, any religion that calls for the death of infidels, or non-believers is a terrorist organization, in my opinion.
Another name for the party could be, "the we're not really racist, so just ignore the proof party".
Yes CM, I remember your post
Yes CM, I remember your post about the southern flag well. You described your shame with your family's historic association with slavery which is why you joined the Southern Poverty Law Center.
Lorie, do you, in all honesty, believe that the driving force behind the Tea Party is racism or more along the lines of EVERY party has a few crackpots that don't know how to express their opinion? This whole broad brush thing is growing very old.
Frank, do you think I am a
Frank, do you think I am a racist?
JoAnne, lets be honest here.
JoAnne, lets be honest here. There are WAY more than a few. That video I put up from a small town parade is chuck full of people. Unfortunately the prevalence and frequency of the racial undertones requires a broad brush.
Timothy, Spitzer is now on CNN, Bruno is headed for jail, Massa was gone almost immediately, Hevesi plead guilty yesterday and the voters in Rangel's district gave him another shot in spite of his ethics investigation. I'm not giving any of them a pass. All but one in your list is out of public life. I was referring to the class of 2010 candidates that are all over our TV screens.
Obviously the democrates are
Obviously the democrates are ruining this country, We need the republicans to take over and put an end to this ongoing nightmare. VOTE FOR PALADINO!!!!!!!!!!
Tim, you're right on the
Tim, you're right on the money, so I want to start my own party, The "pamp" party,(piss and moan party) because there is no way in hell we can get rid of these career politicians, there is to much divide between the haves, and have nots, so we can piss and moan and watch nothing change. Look at the results of the poll, pretty evenly divided at this point. Until we can all agree on a direction, and set of goals for what direction this country should take, nothing is going to change.
I hate to think like a fatalist, but at some point in the very near future,I can see civil unrest, and worst yet, national guardsmen called in to keep the peace. I don't want to even think about what happens after that.
I beleive we have got to find a middle ground, that can benefit all walks of life, as a starting point to bring about change. The two parties obviously don't want to see that happen, thats why they ram their agendas down our throats, keep the fight alive, make sure the sheeple don't ever unite for a common goal, they know all to well if that were to happen, their careers are over.
Yes Lorie, chuck full of 20
Yes Lorie, chuck full of 20 or so crackpots that were probably all related.
How is it that Obama got elected with such a racist electorate? Or did everyone just wake up one day and say OMG, did we just elect a black man? We must form a racist organization to unseat him? We'll call it the Tea Party.
The truth is, Obama promised change and didn't deliver. People are pissed that the Democratic Party toed, or more accurately, were dragged through the party line instead of listening to their constituents. That's why the Tea Party came into existence. It has nothing to do with racism no matter how much you wish it did. No amount of manufactured outrage can change the fact that the Democratic Majority failed to represent the will of the people. Now the will of the people are taking the matter into their own hands.
Frank, the sheeple have
Frank, the sheeple have united for a common goal...they're called the Tea Party.
Joanne, you are good at
Joanne, you are good at research, why not do a search and discover how much money, that is being spent now, was approved during the years when the GOP held the majority in the House, Senate and the White House. You'd be surprised to learn that we are suffering the decisions made then. You might also be surprised to learn that not all of that was for the Bush wars. That GOP majority voted to increase money for many of the social programs that the Republicans are now pretending to abhor.
Change? How do you change the ill effects of eight years in less than two? What magic wand do you expect to be waved.
JoAnne, no, I do not think
JoAnne, no, I do not think you are a racist, and have no reason to believe you are a racist. Political affiliations don't mean one agrees blindly to all party agenda, or political views. I hope I didn't imply you were a racist, if I did it was unintentional, and I would definately apologize.
I can guarantee you one thing
I can guarantee you one thing for sure JoAnne, none of the 11% of the Tea Party folks voted for Obama -- even before there was such a group.
He won an overwhelming majority of the electorate because he had a platform to address issues that mattered to the majority of the people.
JoAnne, I'm actually very proud of Obama's accomplishments and believe that he has brought change. When he campaigned he promised that we would bring combat troops out of Iraq... and he did. He promised to reform health care ... and he did, he promised a tax break for the middle class...and he did. There's a lot more and I like politifact.com. It is a non partisan fact checking site. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/
There are few things that I would have liked to see changed that haven't -- one being the closing of Guantanamo, but for the most part I am very happy with President Obama.
Lorie, is 53% of the
Lorie,
is 53% of the electorate an overwhelming majority these days?
"He promised to reform health
"He promised to reform health care ... and he did"
Reform that brings 8 to 13 percent (I've heard different numbers) increase in premiums for consumers is not health care reform.
Here, from a supposedly liberal web site, is what Obama promised.
http://usliberals.about.com/od/healthcare/a/ObamaHlthCare.htm
I can't see how or where he delivered.
Mike, I exaggerated the
Mike, I exaggerated the majority a bit. A little less than a landslide but a very healthy victory. :)
Howard, my choice for health care was public funding - medicare for all, but that's not what Obama ran on. I'm hoping, like the civil rights legislation in the 60's, that this is the beginning of a much more comprehensive reform down the road.
You got the gist of it,
You got the gist of it, JoAnne- wrong family, though. The Macon family, my mother's progeny, owned slaves. Uncle Frank, tenant farmer, was a Barons; my father's family. And yes, I felt membership in the SPLC was fair reparation. ...None of which sheds light on your comment suggesting I made issue of race.
We also are now hearing about
We also are now hearing about waivers being given to certain groups to hold off on the health care mandates and we are not talking about the Mom & Pop Businesses we are talking huge companies and unions. so just like everything else Health care will be pushed on only the few who can not afford it
LOL Lorie. I think you may
LOL Lorie. I think you may have exaggerated his accomplishments a tiny bit too.
No exaggeration there, Mike.
No exaggeration there, Mike. The promises kept are facts not opinion. There are a lot of promises stalled and a few promises broken, but for the most part this president has accomplished quite a bit in 20 months under very difficult circumstances.
Lorie, just yanking your
Lorie, just yanking your chain a little.
Bea...please don't think for
Bea...please don't think for one minute that I am laying all of the country's woes in Obama's lap. It comes as no surprise to me that past admnistration's have contributed plenty to the problems facing America. The tipping point for me was the Health Care Reform Bill and it has been downhill from there. It all boils down to ideology. I simply don't subscribe to Obama's view for the direction of our country.
Frank...no apology necessary
Lorie...I'm glad that you are happy with President Obama, but your clairvoyant comment above..."I can guarantee you one thing for sure JoAnne, none of the 11% of the Tea Party folks voted for Obama -- even before there was such a group" is as ridiculous as the birther argument. P.S - There's no such thing as a non-partisan fact checking site.
CM - I apologize for misinterpreting your comment.
Difficult How Lorie? He had
Difficult How Lorie? He had control of both houses.
Ok JoAnne, Let me rephrase my
Ok JoAnne, Let me rephrase my statement and make it my personal opinion. It is my opinion, and I would bet dollars to donuts, that there are very few, if any, Tea Party folks who voted for President Obama. There.
PS How do you know that politifact.com or factcheck.org are partisan? They seem to rate the facts equally and fairly on both sides. Did you check the owners or shareholders for political affiliations or campaign contributions to come up with this statement?
Added from factcheck.org Our Mission
"We are a nonpartisan, nonprofit "consumer advocate" for voters that aims to reduce the level of deception and confusion in U.S. politics. We monitor the factual accuracy of what is said by major U.S. political players in the form of TV ads, debates, speeches, interviews and news releases. Our goal is to apply the best practices of both journalism and scholarship, and to increase public knowledge and understanding.
FactCheck.org is a project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania. The APPC was established by publisher and philanthropist Walter Annenberg to create a community of scholars within the University of Pennsylvania that would address public policy issues at the local, state and federal levels."
And from politifact.com
PolitiFact is a project of the St. Petersburg Times to help you find the truth in politics.
Every day, reporters and researchers from the Times examine statements by members of Congress, the president, cabinet secretaries, lobbyists, people who testify before Congress and anyone else who speaks up in Washington. We research their statements and then rate the accuracy on our Truth-O-Meter – True, Mostly True, Half True, Barely True and False. The most ridiculous falsehoods get our lowest rating, Pants on Fire.
Bottom line: the so-called
Bottom line: the so-called Tea Party is just trying to fire up people who normally don't vote in mid-term years, by using their frustration to elect Republicans so as to gain control of one or maybe both houses in Washington, thereby causing Obama to have to compromise with them; which then changes nothing, maintains the ole status quo, and the middle class average person gets screwed. And No, I don't think having Democrats control the White House, Senate and H O R is working, stale-mate ain't gonna get it either. You want things to change, Stop supporting and voting for Demicans and Republocrats, regardless of their rhetoric. Get people who are disillusioned with the process to go and vote for independents and other party candidates. If the voter turnout when all this hoopla is over turns out to be more than 50% across the country, I'll wear an elephant head and donkey's ass down main street.
I mentioned Saul Alinsky a
I mentioned Saul Alinsky a few days ago and by the comments made about the Tea Party, his legacy lives on in Batavia. And Bea, Democrats have been in charge of spending for the last 4 years, not 2.
"to elect Republicans so as
"to elect Republicans so as to gain control of one or maybe both houses in Washington, thereby causing Obama to have to compromise with them; which then changes nothing"
Which changes nothing Dave? Its going to change ALOT. Once the good guys win in a couple months and take control it will balance things out and keep that idiot in the white house in check. Right now he can do whatever he wants and his cronies in the house just follow like lemmings. Things will change Dave, and for the better.
Frank- One thing i will agree with you on, and you make a real good point....The civil unrest thing. I was just having a conversation with someone at work about this yesterday. We both think there will be problems come election day, we really do. So many people on both sides are so fed up and so angry, that you could very well see some get out of hand. I think its extremely sad and pathetic, but very possible. Its no secret that people dont come much more right wing conservative than me, and I am VERY angry at the road this country is going down and the fool in the white house who is driving, but to harm another human being over it? I hope and PRAY I am wrong, but somewhere sometime things are going to come to a boiling point, and I fear it will be election day.
So whether your a Dem or Rep, grab your shield, put on your suit of armor, grab your sword (although a pencil works better) and fill in the little circles for the people you think are best in a couple months and be thankful that you have the right to do so. (Can you hear the patriotic music playing in the background?) :)
Lorie, I checked out
Lorie, I checked out Factcheck.org a while back and found that the Annenberg Foundation is a major donor to the William J. Clinton Foundation. I found a couple of their explanations to be a little too spin-friendly.
I had never heard of Politifact.com until you mentioned it. I only looked at it briefly, but their site appears more legit than Factcheck. I prefer to do my own fact checking, so I don't use those types of sites.
FYI: If anyone else likes to do their own fact checking, I would recommend a site called muckety.com. It maps relationships between people and organizations. It is a very cool interactive site.
Dave,the other parties candidates' don't always align with my core values and beliefs? I'm not going to vote for someone if I don't agree with most of their platform.
Lorie, as for Mr. Obama
Lorie, as for Mr. Obama bringing the troops home from Iraq, well you may be surprised to find out that the date of withdrawal of American troops was in place before Mr. Obama took Office. So he did nothing in regard to bringing the troops home from Iraq. All he did was rubber stamp the existing policy just like he did with the bail out of the banking industry.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.%E2%80%93Iraq_Status_of_Forces_Agreeme…
Your right Jeff. Textbook
Your right Jeff. Textbook Alinsky. I knew it was coming as soon as I saw the poll question. The only surprise was that there was only 1 video posted.
Tim; Good Guys? Hardly. Here
Tim; Good Guys? Hardly. Here this is for you, I'm just trying to help:
http://www.lp.org/news/press-releases/libertarians-issue-warning-to-tea…
JoAnne, "I'm not going to
JoAnne, "I'm not going to vote for someone if I don't agree with most of their platform." I understand that, however the problem is that most of the time, they have no intention of doing the things laid out in their platform. If we continue voting for the same-o D's or R's, it emboldens them to keep on lying.
Did Howard convert you to
Did Howard convert you to libertarianism? :) For the record it was an interesting read, I still love the elephant, but it was a very interesting read none the less Dave. Thanks
You're welcome, Tim. Howard
You're welcome, Tim. Howard and i have met only once about a month ago and very briefly. Ronald Reagan, Both George Bush I & II, Bill & Hilary Clinton, Barack Obama, Al Gore, etc etc converted me to Libertarianism.
Tim, keep readin' buddy. The
Tim, keep readin' buddy. The light will come on for you. In the words of the famous philosopher, Red Green: "We're all in this together, and I'm pullin' for you"
http://www.lewrockwell.com/gregory/gregory200.html
Dave, Do you mind if I pose a
Dave, Do you mind if I pose a Libertarian question to you?
Re: the current Supreme Court Case on Freedom of Speech
Do the Libertarians support the Westboro Baptist Church or the family of the slain soldier?
I don't speak for anyone but
I don't speak for anyone but myself. As distasteful as I find anyone who would protest a funeral for any reason and carry signs telling the family of the deceased that God wanted them dead, they have that right. I'll admit, if I saw it happening I can't honestly say I wouldn't confront the Westboro people. It makes me angry just thinking about it. For the record, I feel the same way about those who'd burn an American flag in protest of whatever. It would upset me greatly, if I saw it. I might not control myself enough to not mix it up with them. Anyone who protests a servicepersons funeral or burns our flag, in my opinion is an ass; I will defend the right to be an ass. I'm not perfect or all that smart by any stretch of imagination, our Constitution, however is a lot closer to perfect and brilliant. We can't pick and choose who has what right.
That's the best I can do, JoAnne
I appreciate your honesty
I appreciate your honesty Dave. I guess this is typical of the issues I have with the Libertarian Party (no offense intended) and why I can't support them.
BTW, I took the quiz on the website...I'm not a libertarian...:)
Howard, health care premiums
Howard, health care premiums have been skyrocketing long before anyone even heard of Obama.
I personally don't beleive any political party will ever be able to reform health care.It has to start internally, there is way to much waste in hospital care.
Look at your last bill, check out what you are charged for, you would be surprised. When a Dr. orders a drug, he may want 5mg, but the drug only comes in 10mg viles, guess where the other 5mg's go, down the drain, and the insurance co. is billed for 10 mg. Some hospitals staff RN's to do aide work, there is a huge difference in wages between an RN and an aide. The health care providers don't care, they just bill the insurance co..
And as long as the insurance co.s keep paying, nothing will change. Just my .02 on the issue.
Dave, I took the quiz on the
Dave, I took the quiz on the website and come out as a right leaning Libertarian. Go figure.
Frank, even the insurance
Frank, even the insurance companies admit that the coming premium rate hikes are necessary to pay for mandatory changes in health coverage.
It is quite ironic that the
It is quite ironic that the Tea Party folks while loathing Alinsky actually have embraced his organizing tactics. Tea Party leader Michael Patrick Leahy even wrote a book titled "Rules for Conservative Radicals: Lessons from Saul Alinsky the Tea Party Movement and the Apostle Paul in the Age of Collaborative Technologies".
The humble beginnings of the right wing's use of Alinsky style protesting in this age of the Tea Party may have started with the 2000 election recount "dog and pony show" orchestrated by Roger Stone. The "protesters" filled up the board of election office with actual Republican staffers to scream foul and disrupt as loud as they could. The public viewed it as a citizen protest but it wasn't, it was a mob of paid operatives. The tactics were then implemented nationwide during last summer's town hall meetings where instructions to yell and disrupt were talking points distributed to protesters by groups like Freedom Works and the health care lobbies.
Alinsky -- alive and well in the Tea Party! Funny how history always repeats only this is like the Ying and the Yang. 1960's radical left -- 2000's radical right. Fun to be old enough to live through both these turbulent time periods.
I don't consider the
I don't consider the $2,975,000 lease on name right to Blue Cross arena a justifiable health care expense.
February reports filed with the Security and Exchange Commission – WellPoint Inc., UnitedHealth Group, Cigna Corp., Aetna Inc. and Humana Inc. posted combined profits of $12.2 billion, a 56% increase over calendar year 2008.
During the same period of time, the big five insurers covered 2.7 million fewer Americans. ...The result of insurance companies purging their most costly customers, like small businesses with older workers- although, the industry blames the drop on former customers unable to afford premiums due to the recession.
Health insurers in general have reduced the percentage of their premiums spent on medical care, placing revenue in the administrative cost and profit columns.
Insurers also shuffle customers to public programs like Medicare Advantage, in which the federal government pays private insurers 14 percent more than it pays Medicare to cover the same people.
The industry’s long-term strategy is to shift millions of older, sicker and lower-income customers to taxpayer-supported programs, like Medicaid and state subsidized alternatives.
And as the mandatory child coverage provision of the new Health Insurance Bill goes into effect, many insurers have stopped offering children-only policies to diminish their need to comply.
Despite the billions that private insurers spent lobbying against public-funded health care, their strategy involves relocating customers with medical bills to public subsidized programs. This falls under the category of "having your cake and eating it too."
While insurance premium payers are consigned to pay for insurance when they are healthy, they expect their claims to be handled when bills come due. Insurance companies, on the other hand, seem only interested in collecting premiums from healthy customers. It may be a profit-practical philosophy, but it defies the inferred contract with the customer. In fact it defies the whole premise of the contract. The cliche that should be made evident to the industry: "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen."
There is ample room for repair when it comes to containing the cost of health care. Doctors order unnecessary tests, pharmaceutical company R/D is underwritten by government- still the public gets billed again at the drug store, fraud and negligence... The bottom line, the collective worry for these abuses should not be shouldered by the unfortunate patient who is on his/her back in a hospital bed.