I chose the second option, 'We need health care reform, but I don't support any of the current proposals'. Actually, if provided the option, I would have chosen 'We need health care reform, and I support some of the items within the current proposals, but not the majority'.
Something to ponder: If people perceive it a Constitutional right for the government to provide healthcare (single payer program), then certainly people have a right to be provided food as well. You cannot have good health without good nutrition. You cannot eat well and have good medical care but be left homeless and forced to endure impossible environmental stressors; it would be to the detriment of one's health. Certainly, you would agree we must provide housing. You cannot have good physical health without proper dental care. = Socialism.
My view: We need reform and it is my hope that people from both sides can come together and form a bill addressing the fears of the people BEFORE presenting it. We need tort reform. We need to put <i>some</i> restraints on the private insurance industry. If WalMart can sell prescriptions for $4, so should all pharmacies. People need a safety net to catch them, but not a permanent sofa for them to set upon. We need to understand that you cannot help the poor by enslaving them. Seniors need to continue to have Medicare. If schools can have cheap private insurance for students, certainly a similar <i>private</i>plan could be available for the under 34 year old crowd who tend to lack insurance (Forty percent of the uninsured are between 19-34 years old). A 2007 study by the Kaiser Commission on Medicaid and Uninsured found that 11 million of those without insurance were eligible for Medicaid or SCHIP <i>but were not enrolled</i>. There should be no abortions provided at any government operated clinics and end of life counseling should not be mandated.
______________________
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
--Thomas Jefferson
"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
--Thomas Jefferson
"Property is the fruit of labor...property is desirable...is a positive good in the world. That some should be rich shows that others may become rich, and hence is just encouragement to industry and enterprise. Let not him who is houseless pull down the house of another; but let him labor diligently and build one for himself, thus by example assuring that his own shall be safe from violence when built."
--Abraham Lincoln
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on the objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."
--James Madison
“The State which would provide everything, absorbing everything into itself, would ultimately become a mere bureaucracy incapable of guaranteeing the very thing which the suffering person—every person—needs: namely, loving personal concern. We do not need a State which regulates and controls everything, but a State which, in accordance with the principle of subsidiarity, generously acknowledges and supports initiatives arising from the different social forces and combines spontaneity with closeness to those in need."
--Pope Benedict XVI
Why the rush? There was a rush to bring the troops home and reality struck - it just wasn't that easy. Haste makes waste - as the 'stimulus package' has shown. Reform can be made but not at the detriment of others. Remember, 85% of Americans do have some sort of health insurance. Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water.
"There should be no abortions provided at any government operated clinics and end of life counseling should not be mandated. "
And why is that? There are many aspects of health care people disagree with covered by government services such as substance abuse and mental health for example. Infringing on someone's right to abort a fetus should not be thrown into this reform whatsoever. I say this being 37 weeks pregnant myself.
Forcing someone to give birth to a child that they didn't want due to financial constraints opens a whole new aspect of problems such as neglect and most likely ending up on welfare. An abortion is a lot cheaper than supporting one child on DSS for 18 years (I am NOT bashing any people on DSS here, just stating facts).
Abortions are not about healthcare (or so the law would suggest). I thought it was a privacy issue ;) ;) Who said something about forcing someone to have a child? Abortion is legal, is it not. Why should I have to pay for an elective procedure (which I happen to abhor)? Do you think the government should also pay for a nose job? Why force someone to go around with a large, bulbous nose? The choice begins when the clothing comes off.
Something how the people who support abortion rights were already born. Anyway, I was giving my two cents.
The elective procedure can be swayed as well. Many people get procedures done that others may not support but it's not a public issue of what is covered and what is not.
Smoking is a choice just as having sex is which is obviously when abortions come into play. I don't support smoking therefore why should I have to pay for any procedures that are related to a smoker's care? Same concept.
No, not the same concept Amanda. With all due respect, abortion is the taking of a life; stopping of a beating heart.
Most Americans do not want abortion in their health coverage, and most consider themselves ‘pro-life,’ with a stronger majority among low-income Americans. By what right, then, and by what precedent, would Congress make abortion coverage into a nationwide norm, or force Americans to subsidize it as a condition for participating in a public health program?
Since the right to health care is based on the right to live, it is also clear that what attacks life is not health care at all, and not a legitimate goal of health care reform.
Above is one of the problems we have in this country with discussing a huge issue like health care. We get sidetracked on things that should not be central to the key issue. Abortion and end-of-life counseling are important issues for people, I admit, but they have little to do with the key problems in health care, including:
1) By almost all measures, the current system is unsustainable. The gap between health care costs and people's income will continue to widen, causing more and more employers to drop coverage and more people to not afford coverage in the individual market;
2) A million families will declare bankrupcy this year primarily due to medical bills they cannot afford to pay, and
3) An estimated 20,000 premature deaths will happen because of lack of access to quality health care.
We all need to calm down and focus on what's best for our country in the long term.
Dennis, some call it sidetracking; I call it non-negotiable. Think conscience clause issues - considering thousands of hospitals, nursing homes, hospices and health care agencies are run by groups who can only operate as long as there is a conscience clause in place. Those hospitals, etc. would have to close immediately if Congress and the President consider them to be small issues.
If abortion and end-of-life issues were left out of the bill, many more individuals would hop on board.
Posted by Dennis Jay on September 2, 2009 - 4:57pm
but they have little to do with the key problems in health care, including:
1) By almost all measures, the current system is unsustainable. The gap between health care costs and people's income will continue to widen, causing more and more employers to drop coverage and more people to not afford coverage in the individual market;
2) A million families will declare bankrupcy this year primarily due to medical bills they cannot afford to pay, and
3) An estimated 20,000 premature deaths will happen because of lack of access to quality health care.
We all need to calm down and focus on what's best for our country in the long term.
Thank you, Dennis, for clearly presenting the issues at hand.
Dennis, I agree with your point. I just felt the need to respond to Kelly with bringing the abortion debate into the mix.
Kelly, the prolife v. prochoice issue is something that can be beat into the ground and has been many times. Many agree with you, many do not. The law is what it is though.
It doesn't stop you from earning money, just hurts your credit. Since people shouldn't be living on credit to begin with, I don't understand why its such a big deal.
I have health insurance, I am not happy with it. I do not have a choice of providers or plans. The one I have sucks. I work for a small company and I am grateful that the owner pays a large part of my insurance. He doesn't have many choices either because we are small. The premiums go up every year and the co-pays do too. If I actually use the coverage, the insurance company denies half of the claims and I have to fight them or pay, even though I go to their preferred provider. I know I'm always crying for us little people, but we're getting screwed and will continue to get screwed. Whatever "compromise" congress comes up with will not help me. The current issue seems to pre-existing conditions and Congress's desire to force insurance companies to accept people with them. I don't want people to be denied coverage, but forcing the companies to accept them will only raise premiums and get more claims denied, that's not a fix. In my humble opinion, there's only 2 ways to fix it, both are extreme. The preferable one is to stop -ALL- government involvement, allow anyone to buy insurance from anywhere and the market forces will bring prices down and improve coverage. That also means taking away the health coverage we provide for our elected representatives and all government employees. Level the playing field and it's then equal. The other option is a single-payer system like Canada, France, Britain et al, again with everybody in the same pool. That way it's fair and eliminates the need for Workman's Compensation, the medical portion of your auto and homeowner's insurance etc. I don't want a government run system, but anything in between just screws the middle class, like always.
Your health insurance should be for catastrophic events. You don't pay car insurance to cover routine maintenance and you should do the same for your body.
Posted by Peter O'Brien on September 3, 2009 - 8:50am
Your health insurance should be for catastrophic events. You don't pay car insurance to cover routine maintenance and you should do the same for your body.
That would greatly lower your premiums.
Catastrophic Insurance isn't for everyone.
How Catastrophic Insurance Works
Catastrophic insurance is a type of fee-for-service health insurance policy that is designed to give protection against, well, a catastrophe. It is sometimes referred to as a High Deductible Health Plan because low monthly premiums are traded for a significantly higher deductible. This means that with this plan, routine doctor's visits and prescription costs are more expensive, but monthly premiums are lower. So you take on more out-of-pocket expenses in exchange for lower premiums. If you're healthy, you save money. But if something catastrophic happens, you're covered.
Basically, you pay for what you need rather than what you might need. This means that once you meet the deductible, you pay the same percentage of the total visit fee, whether you are seeing a specialist for your diabetes or a general practitioner for a simple physical. Therefore, you are free to follow the best course of action to suit your health care needs.
There are two basic types of catastrophic plan: comprehensive and supplemental.
*A comprehensive plan offers coverage comparable to more traditional health care plans. There is still a high deductible and monthly fees are still relatively low -- but they're higher than those in supplemental catastrophic plans. The advantage of a comprehensive plan is that you can be covered for emergency services, like a trip to the ER or a ride in an ambulance, but at a lower monthly premium than a traditional plan.
*A supplemental plan is just that -- it acts as a supplement to other insurance plans you might have. Medical appliances, nursing care and psychiatric care might be included in a supplemental plan.
In both types of catastrophic insurance plans, once your deductible is met the insurance company covers the major medical expenses that it deems necessary, like hospital stays, surgeries, lab tests and intensive care. Like in other insurance plans, elective procedures are not covered.
So, you might have figured out by now that this type of insurance plan isn't for everyone
Catastrophic Insurance Candidates
Catastrophic insurance is most popular with the self-employed, those whose jobs do not offer health plans, people with a lower income who are looking for a health care safety net, and healthy adults with low medical needs. The ideal customer for this type of insurance would be a healthy person with few or no monthly prescriptions who doesn't visit a doctor on a regular basis.
The older generation that purchases catastrophic insurance does so to limit their financial liability should they have a serious event like a stroke or a heart attack. Also, traditional health insurance is often unaffordable for older people -- if they even qualify for it.
I always think it's a good idea to ask people where they get their facts from.
The figure on premature deaths comes from the Institute of Medicine of the National Academies. The study they did was from 2004 and cited 18,000 deaths. I extrapolated the data to 2008 population.
On the bankrupcies, there are several studies on this. I used one from Harvard that found that 2/3rds of people who filed for bankrupcy last year said medical bills was the primary factor. It is estimated that there will be 1.5 million bankrupcy filings in the U.S. this year.
As far as the comment on unsustainability, if you take a look at the annual rise in health premums, overlay it on average worker salary increases each year and take it out five and ten years, it's pretty scary. Most small businesses will not be able to afford coverage. It's an unending upward spiral because people who do not have health insurance are very expensive to the system, they increase everyone's cost, causing more people to lose coverage and become uninsured, who then become more expensive to the system and on and on and on.
I chose the second option,
I chose the second option, 'We need health care reform, but I don't support any of the current proposals'. Actually, if provided the option, I would have chosen 'We need health care reform, and I support some of the items within the current proposals, but not the majority'.
Something to ponder: If people perceive it a Constitutional right for the government to provide healthcare (single payer program), then certainly people have a right to be provided food as well. You cannot have good health without good nutrition. You cannot eat well and have good medical care but be left homeless and forced to endure impossible environmental stressors; it would be to the detriment of one's health. Certainly, you would agree we must provide housing. You cannot have good physical health without proper dental care. = Socialism.
My view: We need reform and it is my hope that people from both sides can come together and form a bill addressing the fears of the people BEFORE presenting it. We need tort reform. We need to put <i>some</i> restraints on the private insurance industry. If WalMart can sell prescriptions for $4, so should all pharmacies. People need a safety net to catch them, but not a permanent sofa for them to set upon. We need to understand that you cannot help the poor by enslaving them. Seniors need to continue to have Medicare. If schools can have cheap private insurance for students, certainly a similar <i>private</i>plan could be available for the under 34 year old crowd who tend to lack insurance (Forty percent of the uninsured are between 19-34 years old). A 2007 study by the Kaiser Commission on Medicaid and Uninsured found that 11 million of those without insurance were eligible for Medicaid or SCHIP <i>but were not enrolled</i>. There should be no abortions provided at any government operated clinics and end of life counseling should not be mandated.
______________________
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."
--Thomas Jefferson
"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
--Thomas Jefferson
"Property is the fruit of labor...property is desirable...is a positive good in the world. That some should be rich shows that others may become rich, and hence is just encouragement to industry and enterprise. Let not him who is houseless pull down the house of another; but let him labor diligently and build one for himself, thus by example assuring that his own shall be safe from violence when built."
--Abraham Lincoln
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on the objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."
--James Madison
“The State which would provide everything, absorbing everything into itself, would ultimately become a mere bureaucracy incapable of guaranteeing the very thing which the suffering person—every person—needs: namely, loving personal concern. We do not need a State which regulates and controls everything, but a State which, in accordance with the principle of subsidiarity, generously acknowledges and supports initiatives arising from the different social forces and combines spontaneity with closeness to those in need."
--Pope Benedict XVI
Why the rush? There was a rush to bring the troops home and reality struck - it just wasn't that easy. Haste makes waste - as the 'stimulus package' has shown. Reform can be made but not at the detriment of others. Remember, 85% of Americans do have some sort of health insurance. Let's not throw the baby out with the bath water.
"There should be no abortions
"There should be no abortions provided at any government operated clinics and end of life counseling should not be mandated. "
And why is that? There are many aspects of health care people disagree with covered by government services such as substance abuse and mental health for example. Infringing on someone's right to abort a fetus should not be thrown into this reform whatsoever. I say this being 37 weeks pregnant myself.
Forcing someone to give birth to a child that they didn't want due to financial constraints opens a whole new aspect of problems such as neglect and most likely ending up on welfare. An abortion is a lot cheaper than supporting one child on DSS for 18 years (I am NOT bashing any people on DSS here, just stating facts).
Abortions are not about
Abortions are not about healthcare (or so the law would suggest). I thought it was a privacy issue ;) ;) Who said something about forcing someone to have a child? Abortion is legal, is it not. Why should I have to pay for an elective procedure (which I happen to abhor)? Do you think the government should also pay for a nose job? Why force someone to go around with a large, bulbous nose? The choice begins when the clothing comes off.
Something how the people who support abortion rights were already born. Anyway, I was giving my two cents.
The elective procedure can be
The elective procedure can be swayed as well. Many people get procedures done that others may not support but it's not a public issue of what is covered and what is not.
Smoking is a choice just as having sex is which is obviously when abortions come into play. I don't support smoking therefore why should I have to pay for any procedures that are related to a smoker's care? Same concept.
No, not the same concept
No, not the same concept Amanda. With all due respect, abortion is the taking of a life; stopping of a beating heart.
Most Americans do not want abortion in their health coverage, and most consider themselves ‘pro-life,’ with a stronger majority among low-income Americans. By what right, then, and by what precedent, would Congress make abortion coverage into a nationwide norm, or force Americans to subsidize it as a condition for participating in a public health program?
Since the right to health care is based on the right to live, it is also clear that what attacks life is not health care at all, and not a legitimate goal of health care reform.
Above is one of the problems
Above is one of the problems we have in this country with discussing a huge issue like health care. We get sidetracked on things that should not be central to the key issue. Abortion and end-of-life counseling are important issues for people, I admit, but they have little to do with the key problems in health care, including:
1) By almost all measures, the current system is unsustainable. The gap between health care costs and people's income will continue to widen, causing more and more employers to drop coverage and more people to not afford coverage in the individual market;
2) A million families will declare bankrupcy this year primarily due to medical bills they cannot afford to pay, and
3) An estimated 20,000 premature deaths will happen because of lack of access to quality health care.
We all need to calm down and focus on what's best for our country in the long term.
Dennis, some call it
Dennis, some call it sidetracking; I call it non-negotiable. Think conscience clause issues - considering thousands of hospitals, nursing homes, hospices and health care agencies are run by groups who can only operate as long as there is a conscience clause in place. Those hospitals, etc. would have to close immediately if Congress and the President consider them to be small issues.
If abortion and end-of-life issues were left out of the bill, many more individuals would hop on board.
Posted by Dennis Jay on
Posted by Dennis Jay on September 2, 2009 - 4:57pm
but they have little to do with the key problems in health care, including:
1) By almost all measures, the current system is unsustainable. The gap between health care costs and people's income will continue to widen, causing more and more employers to drop coverage and more people to not afford coverage in the individual market;
2) A million families will declare bankrupcy this year primarily due to medical bills they cannot afford to pay, and
3) An estimated 20,000 premature deaths will happen because of lack of access to quality health care.
We all need to calm down and focus on what's best for our country in the long term.
Thank you, Dennis, for clearly presenting the issues at hand.
Hi Dennis, May I ask
Hi Dennis,
May I ask where you obtained your statistics? I'm not saying they're right or wrong, I just want to read the study that they came from. Thanks!
Dennis, I agree with your
Dennis, I agree with your point. I just felt the need to respond to Kelly with bringing the abortion debate into the mix.
Kelly, the prolife v. prochoice issue is something that can be beat into the ground and has been many times. Many agree with you, many do not. The law is what it is though.
What's so bad about going
What's so bad about going into bankruptcy court?
It doesn't stop you from earning money, just hurts your credit. Since people shouldn't be living on credit to begin with, I don't understand why its such a big deal.
I have health insurance, I am
I have health insurance, I am not happy with it. I do not have a choice of providers or plans. The one I have sucks. I work for a small company and I am grateful that the owner pays a large part of my insurance. He doesn't have many choices either because we are small. The premiums go up every year and the co-pays do too. If I actually use the coverage, the insurance company denies half of the claims and I have to fight them or pay, even though I go to their preferred provider. I know I'm always crying for us little people, but we're getting screwed and will continue to get screwed. Whatever "compromise" congress comes up with will not help me. The current issue seems to pre-existing conditions and Congress's desire to force insurance companies to accept people with them. I don't want people to be denied coverage, but forcing the companies to accept them will only raise premiums and get more claims denied, that's not a fix. In my humble opinion, there's only 2 ways to fix it, both are extreme. The preferable one is to stop -ALL- government involvement, allow anyone to buy insurance from anywhere and the market forces will bring prices down and improve coverage. That also means taking away the health coverage we provide for our elected representatives and all government employees. Level the playing field and it's then equal. The other option is a single-payer system like Canada, France, Britain et al, again with everybody in the same pool. That way it's fair and eliminates the need for Workman's Compensation, the medical portion of your auto and homeowner's insurance etc. I don't want a government run system, but anything in between just screws the middle class, like always.
Your health insurance should
Your health insurance should be for catastrophic events. You don't pay car insurance to cover routine maintenance and you should do the same for your body.
That would greatly lower your premiums.
Posted by Peter O'Brien on
Posted by Peter O'Brien on September 3, 2009 - 8:50am
Your health insurance should be for catastrophic events. You don't pay car insurance to cover routine maintenance and you should do the same for your body.
That would greatly lower your premiums.
Catastrophic Insurance isn't for everyone.
How Catastrophic Insurance Works
Catastrophic insurance is a type of fee-for-service health insurance policy that is designed to give protection against, well, a catastrophe. It is sometimes referred to as a High Deductible Health Plan because low monthly premiums are traded for a significantly higher deductible. This means that with this plan, routine doctor's visits and prescription costs are more expensive, but monthly premiums are lower. So you take on more out-of-pocket expenses in exchange for lower premiums. If you're healthy, you save money. But if something catastrophic happens, you're covered.
Basically, you pay for what you need rather than what you might need. This means that once you meet the deductible, you pay the same percentage of the total visit fee, whether you are seeing a specialist for your diabetes or a general practitioner for a simple physical. Therefore, you are free to follow the best course of action to suit your health care needs.
There are two basic types of catastrophic plan: comprehensive and supplemental.
*A comprehensive plan offers coverage comparable to more traditional health care plans. There is still a high deductible and monthly fees are still relatively low -- but they're higher than those in supplemental catastrophic plans. The advantage of a comprehensive plan is that you can be covered for emergency services, like a trip to the ER or a ride in an ambulance, but at a lower monthly premium than a traditional plan.
*A supplemental plan is just that -- it acts as a supplement to other insurance plans you might have. Medical appliances, nursing care and psychiatric care might be included in a supplemental plan.
In both types of catastrophic insurance plans, once your deductible is met the insurance company covers the major medical expenses that it deems necessary, like hospital stays, surgeries, lab tests and intensive care. Like in other insurance plans, elective procedures are not covered.
So, you might have figured out by now that this type of insurance plan isn't for everyone
Catastrophic Insurance Candidates
Catastrophic insurance is most popular with the self-employed, those whose jobs do not offer health plans, people with a lower income who are looking for a health care safety net, and healthy adults with low medical needs. The ideal customer for this type of insurance would be a healthy person with few or no monthly prescriptions who doesn't visit a doctor on a regular basis.
The older generation that purchases catastrophic insurance does so to limit their financial liability should they have a serious event like a stroke or a heart attack. Also, traditional health insurance is often unaffordable for older people -- if they even qualify for it.
Sources
•Insurance.com: Pros and Cons of Catastrophic Health Insurance. http://www.insurance.com/quotes/Article.aspx/Understanding_
Catastrophic_Health_Insurance_/artid/43
•Mayo Clinic: Is a HSA Right for You? http://www.mayoclinic.com/print/health-savings-accounts/GA00053/
METHOD=print
•IRS: Health Savings Accounts & Other Tax-Favored Health Plans. http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p969.pdf
•U.S. Department of the Treasury: 2007 HSA Indexed Amounts. http://www.ustreas.gov/offices/public-affairs/hsa/07IndexedAmounts.shtml
•Insurance Information Institute: Glossary of Insurance Terms. http://www.iii.org/media/glossary/alfa.C/
•Colorado Department of Revenue: Catastrophic Health Insurance. http://www.revenue.state.co.us/fyi/pdf/income30.pdf
•Ezine: Catastrophic Health Insurance Coverage - Do You Need it? http://ezinearticles.com/?Catastrophic-Health-Insurance-Coverage---
Do-You-Need-it?&id=575132
http://health.howstuffworks.com/insurance/catastrophic-insurance.htm/pr…
Sean - I always think it's a
Sean -
I always think it's a good idea to ask people where they get their facts from.
The figure on premature deaths comes from the Institute of Medicine of the National Academies. The study they did was from 2004 and cited 18,000 deaths. I extrapolated the data to 2008 population.
http://www.iom.edu/?id=19175
On the bankrupcies, there are several studies on this. I used one from Harvard that found that 2/3rds of people who filed for bankrupcy last year said medical bills was the primary factor. It is estimated that there will be 1.5 million bankrupcy filings in the U.S. this year.
http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2009/06/03/health_related_…
http://content.healthaffairs.org/cgi/content/full/hlthaff.w5.63/DC1
http://www.bankruptcy-statistics.com/bankruptcy-filings-could-rise-to-1…
As far as the comment on unsustainability, if you take a look at the annual rise in health premums, overlay it on average worker salary increases each year and take it out five and ten years, it's pretty scary. Most small businesses will not be able to afford coverage. It's an unending upward spiral because people who do not have health insurance are very expensive to the system, they increase everyone's cost, causing more people to lose coverage and become uninsured, who then become more expensive to the system and on and on and on.