Today's Poll: Do you see the Confederate flag as a symbol of racism?

There are a number of people who see the battle flag of traitors as a symbol of states rights, but that time has passed - the KKK and neo-Nazis have co-opted the flag.

Those of you who do not see it as a sign of racism need to spend a little more time in the South.

I see the flag as a symbol of rebellion. Rebellion, especially for youth, is an healthy thing.

Really Tim? So why can't we hold rap music to the same standard and remove all music that glorifies, dealing drugs, shooting police and violence against whites? Aren't these the same reasons we are insisting on the removal of the confederate flag?

Don't bother with the arguement that not all rap music glorifies those things because you already invalidated it by pointing out the kkk and neo nazi's, (which are a small portion of those who display this flag) co-opted this flag therefore it should be banned.

Can't have it both ways either respect all or respect none.

Howard, instead of the benign, antiquarian image of the rebel flag with the poll question superimposed over it, why not use this more contemporary image? http://media2.fdncms.com/atlanta/imager/kkk-rally/u/original/1418230/im…

I hear next that they are gonna ban tylenol. Because taking the cotton out of the bottle to reach the pills is a reminder of racism and slavery.

Most CM because the issue is about the flag. Not the jerks that decide to use it.

The Confederate flag represented in some ways, the worst of our history...the fact that some in our country tolerated and promoted the owning and exploitation of other people. I can understand the offense some would take in it's imagery. Here is the issue though. It has represented bigotry in it's highest form since 1861. In 1865, after the defeat of those who fought under it, it still represented the same thing. 20 years later, 50 years later, 100 years later and even last week it represented the exact same thing. Nothing in our history or the history of the flag changes what it stood for. That being the case, why is it suddenly so horrific to even gaze upon that we have to erase it from every vestige of the public eye? South Carolina did the right thing in removing it from flying over it's capital but the really interesting thing is who it was done under. Given that the symbol is that egregious, and has been without change for 150 years, why did it take a Republican woman who is also Indian to oversee it's removal while 35 white male Democratic governors were derelict in their duties as well as all other leaders who sat idly by while it flew?

When a state government puts a Cypress Hill song up as the official 'State Song' you'll have a point. But you don't at this point, you're confusing the issue of 'Government Endorsement' and 'Art'.

Gee it's been up for 150 yrs Jeffery, why is it NOW inappropriate, there is no confusion at all. If something is offensive, its offensive, and should be dealt with accordingly. Wouldn't the "Dukes of Hazzard" be considered art? But because of this issue it's no longer broadcast?

Nice try at diffusing the issue but it just proves how ridiculous the pc crap is getting.

I don't know anybody calling for a ban of 'The Dukes of Hazard', so it's a good strawman I guess, but not really relevant.

It always has been offensive, and I have to say that the entire concept of slavery was always offensive, but that took us almost 100 years to handle as well, so another moot point. Government moves slow, especially in a Republic.

Probably Jeff because pandering to the public whims of what is appropriate nowadays is much more important than any other issues. Especially if a politician wants to stay in office. Used to be a time when facts and problems being addressed, working towards tangible goals, was more important to a politicians career than kissing butt to the voters latest whims to stay popular...

Maybe you should pay more attention then Jeffery....

https://www.change.org/p/viacom-warner-brothers-walmart-ebay-stop-banni…

I don't think one can separate the meaning of a flag (or any symbol) from its usage. That's how the meaning of symbols and language in general is standardized. A member of the KKK or other white power/neo-Nazi organization wouldn't be waving a flag that did not represent the tenets of such organizations. Recent polls indicate that Americans are split on appropriateness of the former CSA banner; some results as narrow as 42% to 42%. Those figures change drastically depending on how the poll question is asked, the race of those polled, the political affiliation, age or the region polling takes place in. Obviously current events and pop culture have nuanced perceptions. Despite the dead heat over question of racism Vs. heritage, nearly 60% of Americans think the flag should not be flown publicly. The latter response is more telling than the rest. It indicates that despite personal feelings about the flag, the majority of Americans understand that it symbolizes something offensive.

I'd view trying to repair race relations in a country where these people were considered less than second class citizens within the last 60 years to be a pretty tangible goal.

Not that there's some magic fix, we'll be dealing with that mess the founders left us with for a good long while to go.

That's the free market at work, we're going to complain about that now? I'd be more concerned about government making such a demand, and that was more what I was referring to.

Really CM? So I suppose that the civil right's movement should never have happened because a poll in the 50's stated that a majority of Americans disagreed with Brown Vs School board, for integrating schools. So by your logic it never should have happened.

http://www.publicagendaarchives.org/civilrights/civilrights.htm

A majority of Americans wish to see income tax abolished. Where is that going? How about the majority that wants to see EDC's abolished? or the majority that want to see food stamps and medicaid abolished?

So what if some find the flag offensive, I guess then we should see these other things voted on and removed before the end of the year because by your logic.....the majority of Americans find these things offensive.

As I said before respect all or respect none. What I see here is bigotry. Its ok to bully the govt into doing what you want it to do. But then when you disagree with what the Gov't is doing you complain about it over-reaching. Hypocritical at best don't you think?

You all can just remember the opinions you expressed here, so the next time you complain about the power the Govt excercises over your lives, remember that you approved it here when you thought it was PC.

I love the results of the poll though, however meaningless it might be.

Helpful Hint to anyone who actually wants their comments to be read here on thebatavian.

Do not post it as a Reply to another comment.
Reasons:
1) "Reply's" end up out of chronological order -and few people are gonna wade back through dozens of comments they've already read

2) When someone replies to a SPECIFIC comment, it gives you the number of the (supposed) comment, but, in reality, points to an unrelated one. (Example: Comment #10, written by Kyle, is aimed at CM (Barons) comment, but, it actually lists it as a Reply to Comment #5 - which, in reality, is one written by Kyle himself.

REPLY'S TO COMMENTS are a GIGANTIC FLAW in this website.

Kyle - Your outrage over the government bans is unfounded. No government has banned the confederate flag!

When did this country become so hell bent on removing and/or re-writing our history by removing the bad and the ugly and keeping only the good? My father was from the great Volunteer State - Tennessee and my mother one of those damn Yankees. I was exposed to what could only be described as a strong Southern pride by my grandfather in order that I might understand the motives that galvanized the Southern Cause during every summer vacation. My Yankee side could not grasp the concepts but I believe I became the person I am because of a personal perspective provided by heritage.

Our country has reduced itself to the level of those we despise. Do we not look in horror as Isis removes and destroys artwork and museum artifacts in order to remove/cleanse any vestige of those that came before? Was there not a movement here to re-write our classic literature to remove the offensive "N" word even thought is was the vernacular of the time? We're so quick to cut our ties with people and symbols that speak a truth about where we've been. Maybe next we should think about removing Washington's and Jefferson's likenesses from Mount Rushmore because they were both slave owners. Where will it end?

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-house-confederate-flag-ban-federal-cemet…

Yeah just barely Jason.....but they had planned on it nonetheless, all because of this issue.

http://news.yahoo.com/house-vote-confederate-flag-ban-federal-cemeterie…--

Sorry Jeff thanks for the support but I just got the update....

Kyle didn't say any Government banned the Confederate Flag, only in response to Tim was he stating a point that simply because organizations within the U.S., which ARE symbols of racism and bigotry, "co-opted this flag, therefore it should be banned."

NFN people, but slavery, in this country, was very much alive long before secession started occurring in the early 1860s. So perhaps our own American Flag should be removed from public and Government buildings as well? After all, slavery was accepted by our own Government prior to 1800.

When our forefathers won our independence from Great Britain, and drafted our Constitution, their belief was all men were created equal. However, that equality was limited only to whites, not blacks, or women.

What I find the very apex of hypocrisy is that slavery still exists today, right now. Do you know where? in Africa, just about every country from east to west coast south of the Sahara. So I ask where is the outcry and indignation of this? America can criticized and demonized for having continued slavery after it was abolished in Europe. But while african Americans talk about the hard feelings over slavery, it still is common in the homeland.

Seems to me a very unfair thing to turn a blind eye and blame the US for an institution that we abolished yet it still goes on today in the very countries we are accused of enslaving their ancestors from.

There's actually a lot of outcry out there for current Human Trafficking and Slavery, along with investigations by the FBI for instances that carry over to the US, and action through the UN (where it is actually appropriate). Not sure why we're just talking Africa either, happens all over the place.

I wasn't under the impression that the United States (and every citizen in it) rules the entire planet and should take tangible action on every single thing that happens on it, and if you don't go over there and personally take a plane to Africa to combat slavery in another you're a hypocrite. Maybe that's just too realistic of an opinion I guess.

Doesn't surprise me in the least btw that the House and Senate will likely approve that ban of Confederate flags on property the Federal Government owns, it was already highly restricted to certain days as it was. I'm sure the Feds would sell that land to the States so they can exercise their states rights to plant flags on it if they really want to though.

There goes the government, always following up my statement with a contradictory move...

;)

Some things you can still count on Jason LOL

At least the time stamp of my comment precedes the article. I don't support federal bans on anything, but I'm perfectly comfortable with the removal of the confederate flag by choice.

Even if it's not viewed by everyone as a symbol of hate, there's no arguing its divisiveness. No reason to not just be nice to each other. Just don't force anyone to do it. Someday we'll all wake up and forget about giving each other reasons to be upset.

The age of aquarius I guess.

the confederate flag is like a holy book, you can interpret it any way you want to make it fit your argument..... personally I have always looked at it as a " southern flag" that represented Americans from the south at one time. I also like the way it looks, I think it looks cool. However never in my life have I owned one but due to all this PC crap that's being tossed around and how I am being told by who knows who that this flag is evil, I can't wait till mine gets here. I have installed a flag pole and I will fly this flag just to show the PC people what I think of them. So now the flag has another meaning that has nothing to do with history or slavery or states rights..... oh by the way I am offended by the name " Yankee" it's racist, it hurts me to hear it, so from now on Yankee will be referred to as the " Y " word..... sending letter to Mr. Schummer...

Reply to #21 and #22:
You two guys appear to be commenting on your own comments.
Did last week's heat-wave get to y'all? :)

As for the Confederate flag thing, personally, I never considered it to be a 'racist' thing. Like (some) others here, I always thought it to be a 'Southern' thing. I liken it to the old Rorschach inkblot test. People can both look at the same exact thing, but have totally different opinions on what they see.

When it comes to the recent hysteria surrounding said flag, I believe MOST of it is BS/PC. Up until some guy cloaked himself in a Confederate flag and killed a bunch of people, talk about that flag was, at best, on the low end of subjects. But, all of a sudden, tv broadcasters, conglomerates (like Walmart, K-mart, Amazon, ebay, etc.) have a problem with it. Why? Because their livelyhoods depend on consumers. So they jump on the PC bandwagon. I don't necessarily agree with them, but I do understand why they do it.

I agree with Linda Knox's comment above. Where does it all end?

From an article published at http://www.quora.com/Which-US-Presidents-owned-slaves-or-were-descended…
it states that 12 former presidents actually owned slaves - Washington,Jefferson,Madison,Monroe,Jackson,VanBuren,Harrison,Tyler,Polk,Taylor,Johnson, and Grant. Another 25 were descended from slave owners (amongst them are Carter, both Bush's, Truman, FDR and Wilson. Oh yeah, even Obama on his mom's side of the family.
So, where does it all stop? Do we just stop at that flag, or start changing the names of ALL vestiges related to slavery?
Streets?(Dallas & Houston are already considering THAT one).
Schools? There are many HUNDREDS of them - some, even in 'northern' states.
Counties? Two right around me are named Polk and Lee (and both are named directly after THOSE slave-owners).

Where does the lunacy stop? Well, you're talking about humans, and, sometimes, humans appear to be amongst the stupidest creatures to walk the earth. So, it'll probably never end.
And, even iF we did away with ANY & ALL things related to this sordid time in our country's past, d'ya really think that'd change much? I don't!

I don't understand all this hoopla over the Confederate Army Battle Flag!

I find the NE Patriots, Miami Dolphins, and NY Jets flags VERY offensive!! How do we get THEM banned????

Kyle said it best, political pandering.Wal Mart will sell guns, but not a confederate flag.
I 'm going to get a rebel flag just because

Kyle said it best, political pandering.Wal Mart will sell guns, but not a confederate flag.
I 'm going to get a rebel flag just because

Americans saying that the Confederate flag represents heritage and not hate is just as stupid as a German saying that the flag of the Third Reich represents the same. The Confederate flag is just as racist as a swastika. It is a symbol of the subjugation of an entire group of human beings.

Not to mention that both flags are representative of a group of treasonous racists that ultimately lost. How have these mouth breathers not realized that that stupid flag represents a bunch of traitors/losers?

I actually don't mind seeing people display the Confederate flag, racist though it may be. I know that anyone who flies it is someone I don't need to waste any time on. That is a person who is a trailer-dwelling, six toed cousin lover who brings NOTHING to the table. My time is valuable, seeing this symbol allows me to waste less of it. Sort of like face tattoos or naked lady mud flaps.

As soon as I see a neck tattoo I think prison. But some otherwise strange, yet still attractive, people are very self loathing, their childhoods must have been a nightmare. Face tattoos just mean kill me please, I'm too stupid for life and I don't want to live.

"Face tattoos just mean kill me please, I'm too stupid for life and I don't want to live."

Thanks for the belly laugh George!

Politically correct should be called politically stupid! All of a sudden the rebel flag offends people? Well I find that ridiculous. Comparing it to Nazi Germany? Again ridiculous!! The Civil War was fought between all Americans and the confederate flag was flown as a sign of rebellion, not slavery and flown by Americans making it a part of American History!! Are we going to rewrite all the history books as well to edit out any mention of the flag? Calling people who fly it hillbilly trash and such is politically correct? Wow, there are a lot of hypocrites on here!! They cancel a family show such as the Dukes of Hazzard but allow the complete garbage that is allowed on nightly tv to be shown? You can`t find a prime time tv show without references to drugs, gay and hetero sex, crime, etc. but America is a much better place because those crazy Duke boys and that dirty flag won`t be on anymore!! Give me a break, this country is in need of some serious help!

"They cancel a family show such as the Dukes of Hazzard."

Man look. The Dukes weren't cancelled due to any flag being displayed, it's because their fan base hit puberty. Plus the show really jumped the shark when they started focusing on Enos too much, and less on Daisie's dukes.The ratings dropped off! It's capitalism at work, way back in 1985. The Confederate flag had nothing to do with it.

And I think the parallel I drew between the Confederate flag and the swastika is correct. Come on man, think about it. Both symbols represent a traitorous (and ultimately failed) rebellion within a nation that was caused by a small group of bigots that subjugated an entire group of fellow human beings in order to further their own wealth and power.

So to focus upon the original poll question, I can't believe that anyone could find the Confederate flag to be anything but racist. I don't think it should be banned or forbidden in any manner, for that would go against our Constitutional right to free speech and expression. But it is most definitely racist, and hopefully it dies out due to common sense.

i am talking about the reruns which were cancelled because of the rebel flag which to me is not racist at all.

You might want to reread your history book about the Civil War as well.

School desegregation (which some might argue never occurred) was enforced by a ruling of the Supreme Court. What has that got to do with opinion polls? Are you so naive as to assume SCOTUS abides by public opinion polls? The flag issue WILL be based on opinion, because no politician wants to cast a vote that will later be framed as racially-motivated. Also there are corporations with pending projects in these states that have laid down the gauntlet over the flag issue. That's big money talking.

Jim, I'd welcome a look at your Civil War reading list. I'm sure it's far different than mine. Perhaps you could be so kind as to enlighten me?

And Jim, a TV show is considered cancelled when they stop making new episodes. Not when they stop airing it.

Something no one addresses is which segment of southern society can celebrate this history? Do we honestly believe that the black citizens feel any kinship to this flag?
Civil War soldiers placed great importance on the flags of their regiments, and men would sacrifice their lives defending a regimental flag to protect it from capture by the enemy. The devotion to a flag wasn't merely emotional. Regimental flags played a vital part in Civil War battles, and it’s important to know why that is.
Flags Were Valuable Morale Builders
Civil War armies, both Union and Confederate, tended to be organized as regiments from particular states.And soldiers tended to feel their first loyalty toward their regiment.
Soldiers strongly believed they represented their home state (or even their local region in the state), and much of the morale of Civil War units was focused on that pride. And a state regiment typically carried its own flag into battle.
Soldiers took a great deal of pride in those flags. The regimental battle flags were always treated with great reverence, and at times ceremonies would be held in which the flags were paraded in front of the men.
While these parade ground ceremonies tended to be symbolic, events designed to instill and reinforce morale, there was also a very practical purpose, which was making sure that every man could recognize the regimental flag.
Practical Purposes of Civil War Battle Flags
The regimental flags were critical in Civil War battles as they marked the position of the regiment on the battlefield, which could often be a very confused place. In the noise and smoke of battle, regiments could become scattered, and vocal commands, or even bugle calls, could not be heard.
So a visual rallying point was essential, and soldiers were trained to follow the flag.
A popular song of the Civil War, "The Battle Cry of Freedom," made mention of how "we'll rally 'round the flag, boys." The reference to the flag, while ostensibly a patriotic boast, does actually play upon the practical use of flags as rallying points on the battlefield.

read more here: http://history1800s.about.com/od/civilwar/f/Civil-War-Battle-Flags.htm

After Gen. Lee surrendered on April 9, 1865, at Appomattox Court House, a formal agreement was signed by high-ranking officers of both armies (including Gens. Longstreet, Gordon and Pendleton for the Confederacy) that the Confederate “troops shall march by brigades and detachments to a designated point, stack their arms, deposit their flags, sabers, pistols, etc. and from thence march to their homes ...”
Gen. Lee appointed Col. Alexander Cheves Haskell of the 7th S.C. Cavalry to effect the surrender of the Confederate cavalry.
A South Carolinian surrendered the Confederate flag.
Mutual respect
On April 12, 1865, for the last time, the Army of Northern Virginia marched as an army. A federal officer remarked that “the regimental battle flags crowded so thick by thinning out of men, that the whole column seemed crowned with red.”
As the Confederates passed by, Union Gen. Joshua L. Chamberlain ordered his men to come to the position of “salute” out of respect for their former foes. He knew how difficult it was for these men to give up their flag.
The Confederate Army, led by Maj. Gen. John Brown Gordon, acknowledged Chamberlain’s gesture and ordered his men to reciprocate. That was done “and a truly imposing sight was the mutual salutation and farewell.” The men faced the Union lines and “stacked their arms & piled their colors ...”
The ceremony took six hours, and “some of the color bearers shed tears when they delivered up their colors.”
Others kneeled and kissed their flags “with tears in their eyes.” They knew their flag would never officially fly again. “We did not even look into each other’s faces,” one pained North Carolinian said.
Gen. Chamberlain recalled, “Lastly — and reluctantly, with agony of expression — they fold their flags ... and lay them down.”
A South Carolinian said: “And they, the Yankees, acted with much consideration, and like good soldiers, and good Americans can only act, did not show that exultation they must have felt. While they seemed to feel proud, of course, at the result, yet we had their sympathy and goodwill.”
Read more at: http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20150628/PC1002/150629348/1021/co…

The flag flown above the Capitol grounds in Columbia and commonly called "the Confederate flag" was never actually the official flag of the Confederate States of America. The CSA had three national flag patterns between 1861 and 1865, which can be viewed at the Museum of the Confederacy website.
However, because the first CSA national flag was so similar to the United States flag, it was difficult to tell which flag was which on the battlefield. That’s why the Army of Northern Virginia began using a separate battle flag that looked like a square version of the flag most people are familiar with today.
Champions of the battle flag argue “it’s not a racial thing,” but it’s tough to deny the pattern has strong links to slavery.
Those who believe slavery was not a central point of conflict in the Civil War may wish to peruse the South Carolina, Georgia, Mississippi and Texas declarations of secession.Those documents all explicitly cite threats to slavery as reasons for secession. Mississippi's declaration goes so far as to say that “a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization.” It was not until long after the Civil War ended, however, that the battle flag began to take on even stronger connections to racial injustice.

In the late 1940s, the flag was adopted as a symbol of the Dixiecrats -- a political party devoted to, among other things, maintaining segregation. They also opposed President Harry S. Truman’s proposals to instate anti-discrimination laws and make lynching a federal crime.
Some of the Dixiecrats went so far as to declare their commitment to “white supremacy,” according to The Confederate Battle Flag: America’s Most Embattled Emblem by John M. Coski.
Coski writes that though the Dixiecrats soon faded into obscurity, their campaigns “made the flag a fixture in places where it had been only a novelty before. Notably, Ole Miss is the same institution that erupted into riots in 1962 when the federal government insisted that the school accept a black student.
In 1963, the year after the Ole Miss riot, Alabama Gov. George Wallace raised the flagover the state Capitol in protest against desegregation, as described by the Georgia State Senate Research Office in a 2000 report.
The same report found that the integration of the battle flag into the Georgia state flag in 1956 was racially motivated. When the pattern was incorporated into Georgia's flag, the researchers wrote, the state “was in a desperate situation to preserve segregation.”
They went on to say:
“Resisting, avoiding, undermining, and circumventing integration was the 1956 General Assembly’s primary objective. The adoption of the battle flag was an integral, albeit small, part of this resistance.”
Though some people may genuinely feel that the Dixie flag represents their Southern heritage or commemorates those who lost their lives in battle, the reality is that in far more recent history, the flag has been used as an explicit symbol of racism and racial inequality.
Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/06/22/confederate-flag-racist_n_7639…
For the record I have read my history.

Years ago when I use to drive to the South for family visits and vacation, I would stop in the first state outside of NYS and replace my front license plate with one that displayed the Confederate flag. This was done more for the protection against Southern speed traps especially in Georgia.

Bea, I have read my history also. There were 4 versions of the Confederate flags. All of these flags were used during 1861-1865 during the Civil War. It was seen during many other times during other wars also.

http://www.usflag.org/confederate.stars.and.bars.html

I feel the problem since the senseless act of the murders in South Carolina all stems from the coward. He has now brought out the KKK who will be marching on July 18th to "protest the removal of the Confederate Flag and they will be burning crosses".

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/06/30/us-usa-south-carolina-klan-id…

The next problem. The Black Panthers are talking about "finishing the job".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le0t3Efw-Yo

In the coming days, it appears there will be more racial tension. All due to our ongoing battle of a president who keeps the fires burning. I'm sorry, it's my opinion. He's not helping matters by encouraging this. He's taking our history away one piece at a time. I'm not for or against this whole mess. What I am against- taking away our rights as a free country. It's not America anymore. It's Obamaica

Sorry Bea I guess you didn't pay attention to what you didn't want to see regarding the question you posed.

Do we honestly believe that the black citizens feel any kinship to this flag?

Well here ya go....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/06/30/why-some-b…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fD5JRPV0W7Y

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/06/30/why-rappers-use-the-co…

Be it subversive or outright loyalty to the region they grew up, it really doesn't matter. Your assumption that people of color are automatically against the rebel flag is a broad generalism that in no way reflects the truth.

Oh and if you truly read your history instead of skimming it you would realize that this flag we are all discussing is not only never been an official flag representing the CSA but this is not the battle flag either, The battle flag was smaller and more square. The rebel flag we see today was the CSA Navy Jack, flown on CSA fighting ships.

http://www.usflag.org/confederate.stars.and.bars.html

Forgive the grammatical and odd words in my posts. My phone's auto correct for voice to text really stinks.

Bea, I think what a lot of folks, myself included, are scratching their heads at is not what the flag does or doesn't symbolize, it's the sudden toxicity of it. You gave a well documented historical account and your conclusion is that the flag is clearly a symbol of racism and bigotry. Can you point to previous attempts (before 2 weeks ago) to get the flag sent to museum obscurity? I can't. Rep. Bennie Thompson (D) Mississippi was on TV this morning passionately speaking about the hatred and oppression the flag represents and how complicit Republicans are in it's still being around. And yet he has been in Congress for 22 years and there is no legislation either sponsored, co-sponsored, or supported by him (or anyone else) to put away the flag prior to last week. Scores of legislators black and white have served in houses controlled by both parties over the last 150 years and certainly would have had opportunity to pass legislation and yet?....nothing. We've gone from across the board disinterest to absolute toxicity in the span of a couple of weeks. The result? Politically divisive grandstanding and nothing else.

Nice overreach, Kyle. Using your "logic", ALL flags must be banned as some have been co-opted by bigots.

I feel the same way about the Confederate Battle flag as I do the song "Cop Killer". Yet, somehow, I can still pledge allegiance to the Stars and Stripes, and enjoy listening to "Rappers Delight".

For some silly reason I don't see youthful rebellion in quite the same light as rebelling BECAUSE YOU WANT TO OWN HUMAN BEINGS!

For some silly reason I don't see youthful rebellion in quite the same light as rebelling BECAUSE YOU WANT TO OWN HUMAN BEINGS!

Gee we had slavery for hundreds of years Kyle, why stop it in the 1800s?

Gee we had segregation in schools for hundreds of years Kyle, why stop it in the 1950s?

Gee women were chattel to their husbands and unable to own property for hundreds (thousands) of years Kyle, why stop that?

{smh}

I had a comment removed by Howard or someone because I wrote of the N word without bothering with the stupid euphemism that sounds like baby talk so it doesn't cry. I can't feel the black experience because I have never known a black person beyond: "Hey bro". I don't know a single Asian person either. My Viet Nam veteran co workers of days gone by referred to them as Gooks but I've never known a single one. I don't know any Indian people, American or Indian, and I have never been out of the Country except Mexico and Canada before George W Bush made that a big pain in the ass too. I have never seen and obituary in The Batavian for a black person and they sure are rare in any pictures posted. The truth is that the United States is not one big melting pot we are a country of factions, actually tribes. Intermingling is bound to happen but it is highly resisted in all circles other than those beyond one's control. I wish I were wrong but to deny it is folly. I do know a couple of Mexican's though, they think they are white and they hate Mexicans from Mexico for no damn reason, just like real white people do.
Oh and my first amendment rights have been violated just because of my lack of pigmentation. If I ever turn gay you will hear from my lawyer.

"The Confederate flag is just as racist as a swastika."

Sorry Sean, but the Swastika symbol, is much older than the Third Reich.

It's a symbol considered sacred in Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism since the Neolithic period.

Can anyone see beyond page 2? It stops at post 100 and I know there are more.

Black South Carolinians have been asking for the flag's removal since 1972, and it's been a formal demand of the legislature's Black Caucus since 1977. In 1994, the legislature seriously considered a compromise, but it later fell apart.

In the 2000 Republican primary, both George W. Bush and John McCain were asked what should be done about the flag. They said it should be left up to South Carolina, a position for which McCain later apologized.

''I don't believe [Confederate] service, however distinguished, needs to be commemorated in a way that offends, that deeply hurts, people whose ancestors were once denied their freedom by my ancestors,'' McCain said.

In 2000, the legislature reached a compromise after 50,000 people marched to demand the flag be taken down and the NAACP declared a boycott. The flag was moved from the Capitol dome to the most prominent spot on the Capitol grounds, near a monument to Confederate soldiers. When it was taken down from the Capitol dome, some flag supporters chanted, "Off the dome and in your face."

When crafting the compromise — which made the flag more visible to visitors than it had been before — legislators did their utmost to ensure the flag couldn't be pushed out any further.

The law requires the flag to be hoisted 30 feet from the ground, illuminated at night, and surrounded by "an appropriate decorative iron fence." Moving it or removing it requires a two-thirds majority vote.

The flag's stubborn hold on the state isn't just the result of an ironclad compromise that makes it all but impossible to take down. It's a symbol of how successfully the Civil War has been misremembered so that "heritage" and "hate" could be disentangled from each other.

The Confederate flag was adopted to represent a short-lived rebellion to extend and protect white supremacy and black slavery. For 75 years, it was used as a reminder of the nobility of that cause. Then it became a symbol of resistance to black civil rights leaders and to the federal government that was finally trying to enforce the law of the land.

As recently as 2011, Haley dismissed concerns about the flag, saying she thought the state had moved on. And in her statement, she acknowledged South Carolinians who insist — despite history's evidence to the contrary — that the flag is not a racist symbol.

"The hate-filled murderer who massacred our brothers and sisters in Charleston has a sick and twisted view of the flag, Haley said. "In no way does he reflect the people in our state who respect, and in many ways, revere it."

But that reverence now stops at the capitol grounds. http://www.vox.com/2015/6/20/8818093/confederate-flag-south-carolina-ch…