Today's Poll: If you lived in Alabama, would you vote for Roy Moore for Senator?
30% of us would vote for a child molester for a public office?
We don’t live in Alabama.
THIS. IS. SAD.
Dave, nobody in the poll, let alone 30% voted for a child molester, and Ray Moore hasn't been convicted of pedophilia.
Do you know something the rest of us don't? If you do please tell us!
Do you believe a person is innocent until proven guilty, or is it contingent on their political views during an election?
What do you mean, "We don't live in Alabama?"
Do you believe you are smarter and morally superior to people living in Alabama?
What is wrong with our fellow Americans living in Alabama, Dave, please tell us?
Dave, I can understand your concern, and it valid
. But tell us, as a Liberal, are you calling for Al Franken and John Conyers to step down from Congress
Rich, you asked if I feel smarter and morally superior to people living in Alabama.
Moore has a little history here. He’s been thrown off the highest court in Alabama TWICE!
He certainly thinks HE is morally superior. He’s been told otherwise by the state of Alabama. So we have that. In addition, there is a TON of circumstantial evidence to support the claims of his pedophilia. These women have nothing to gain this guy is a creep, plain & simple.
To answer your question, I certainly feel smarter than the people who would put party over common sense, good judgment and country.
Keep drinking that trump kool-ade while it lasts. It won’t bee much longer.
John, as far as Franken & Conyers go, I’d say Franken has a target on his back because of the way he’s questioned Sessions.
What’s interesting is that Leannn Tweeden is a Fox “news” employee, and somehow e weasel that is Roger Stone “predicted” this issue would surface. Probably no conspiracy there right? Franken has accepted responsibility & apologized and Tweeden has accepted.
For fun Google “Leeann Tweeden plays grabass with Robin Williams”. It was OK for her to play. All of this is just a little too convenient.
Franken’s female Senate staff have written a supportive letter on his behalf. He has volunteered to cooperate with an ethics investigation.
So, based on the above I think Franken should stay pending the ethics investigation.
All I know about Conyers is that he’s settled claim(s) with non disclosure agreements. That sounds fishy to me. As to whether he should go, there should be an ethics investigation and the results should determine his status. Personally I wouldn’t mind seeing him go
Oh, and Rich...if Moore is somehow elected, he will be an anchor around the neck of EVERY republican running in 2018. So part of me secretly maybe wouldn’t mind if this reprobate managed to get elected. It would be fun watching all the republicans trying to manage that situation.
Dave, so two guys, Liberals, who clearly have done wrong get a pass from you. Franken now has 4 women who have said he has done things. And Conyers' list is growing.
But a guy who denies doing anything and who did not have anything come up in his last 8 elections, and then only when he might go to the US Senate, does not?
"Innocent until proven guilty is for criminal convictions, not elections. I believe Leigh Corfman," -- Republican Mitt Romney.
Five women who didn't know each other, independent of each other, made similar accusations with details corroborated by investigative journalists.
Moore has repeatedly called the women liars but has failed repeatedly to supply any evidence to support his contention that they're lying. He hasn't even responded to the Washington Post attorneys demanding evidence that the stories are incorrect. He's threatened to sue but has failed to start any legal proceedings.
Numerous people have offered supporting statements about Moore trolling malls looking for girls and his preference for young girls was well known among his colleagues.
Oh, and he married a girl he met when she was in high school ...
It would be easier to laugh all this off except for the additional allegations of assault and the fact that he holds himself out as a moral paragon of family values.
If a 30-year-old man's name popped up in our blotter for sexually assaulting teenage girls he would be eviscerated in comments (though still only an accusation, not a conviction). So why does Moore get a pass now?
Howard, my point is that while Moore may very well be guilty of everything, our Liberal friend Dave seems to give the Dem Liberals who have much more solid proof of sexual misbehavior a pass to stay in Congress.
My topic is Roy Moore. I'll save Franken for another day, maybe. In any discussion of Moore, any other name, is beside the point. The merits of supporting or not supporting Moore rests on the issues swirling around Moore, completely independent of any other politician. Nothing any other politician did changes the accusations against Moore.
John, did you READ my post????
I said both should stay pending the results of the ethics investigation and I wouldn’t mind seeing Conyers go this afternoon. If Franken were to be found guilty and told to leave, so be it. I just think given the circumstances I stated, his case is fishy.
Howard raised some additional good points. Some guy who was accused of the things that Moore has been accused of would be vilified on the Batavian but because of the circumstances the republicans choose to put party over common sense and country.
Wait for the Ethics Investigation? For Franken you will wait, but not wait for proof on Moore. That's a bit unfair. As for Republicans, have you seen how many in Congress have already come out against Moore? How many Dems in Congress have called on Franken or Conyers to be removed (answer-none)
Country over party John. Country over party.
It comes down to that.
You know perfectly well that the statute of limitations has run out for anything that this creep Moore could be charged with, so all we have is the first hand accounts of his victims, who ONCE AGAIN have NOTHING to gain by being inserted into this mess. Especially down there.
So say what you want about presumed innocence. There’s no opportunity for his victims to have their day in court. The voters will have to speak for them. I hope they do the right thing.
Dave, I said Moore may very well be guilty of everything. But the evidence against Franken and Conyers is a lot more clear. If one, Moore, who has not yet been proven guilty and has denied it all, should not even be allowed into Congress, I would think you would support the other two being removed who are flat out guilty. But then, the other two are Democrats, so they get a pass.
Dave Meyer, I believe it's spelled Kool-Aid and not Kool-ade . . . Jus' sayin'
Dave, you are the one putting party before common sense. Party before ethics. Partisan politics ahead of fairness, transparency, and accountability. You can't have it both ways. Saying you're sorry does not mitigate the act, and accepting responsibility without punishment, nothing to see here, lets-move-on is meaningless.That's the same-old-same old-Bill Clinton/Hillary Clinton tactics of denial and character assassination. People are not buying that brand of kool-aid today unless they are dyed in the wool at all cost partisans. We have the right to know the name of each and every Congressman who paid off sexual harassment claims with taxpayer money (15 Million) and I care don't about party affiliation and the heck with the ethics committee.
The kids are watching and the message is pretty clear. The real question is whether or not it’s the one you really want sent. I can honestly say absolutely not!
Rich & John, this post started about Moore. YOU GUYS are the ones who brought up Franken & Conyers as if to conflate the argument. So take your Franken, Conyers, Clinton arguments and start your own post. You can’t defend the reprobate Moore by trying to equate whatever offenses Franken MAY have committed. It’s not even close.
If you want to choose to ignore the mountain of circumstantial evidence against Moore, go ahead. If you have daughters or granddaughters just think if this creep was molesting them. I can’t even believe I have to argue this in 2018.
Dave, I am not defending Moore, at all, not even trying to. I only brought it up to see if you, as a Liberal, would take the opportunity to condemn fellow Liberals who are without a doubt guilty of sexual harassment (hell, Franken even had his photo taken while doing it). Four women now have come forward.
Moore very well may be the creep you say. But there is proof that Franken and Conyers are (and that Conyers even used our tax money to pay one victim off).
Dave, I never brought up Franken or Conyers, and for all your obfuscation, you can't have it both ways.
There's plenty of time to deal with Franken. I really know nothing about Conyers.
The question is about Roy Moore, who is running for Senate as the family values candidate.
The evidence against is crystal clear. His denials are clearly lies. Why would anybody defend him or give him the slightest benefit of the doubt?
Mitt Romney made a good point. He may be innocent before the eyes of the court until tried and convicted, but as a matter of an electoral decision, the case against him is unassailable.
The claims against Moore stem from 35-38 years ago, and are now just coming out prior to his election... ??? There is not sufficient time to prove a case for or against Moore before the election. So the decision for now is in the hands of the voters. I hope they are paying attention, and not just partisan politics morons.
My Brother Moved from Indian Falls To Foley AL. 10 years ago and he tells me The people are very angry at the dirty trick pulled by the Liberals on Moore Just before the election-Its an obvious hit job by the liberals and the Conservative voters see it for what it is ! He's voting for Moore ..When I talk to him and ask -How is it going he replies =Another day in Paradise !!
Yes Id vote for Roy! as a Liberal in office is just another vote to take gun rights away !
I used to have a sign on the wall in my office
NEVER ARGUE WITH STUPID PEOPLE. THEY’LL JUST DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL AND BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE.
"The claims against Moore stem from 35-38 years ago ..."
And for which he's non-repentant.
To me, it was telling when the charges first came out, there was no rush to his defense from Republicans. That told me this had been an open secret for years and subsequent reporting proved it.
This is no liberal conspiracy. This was sold journalism by the Washington Post to dig out the truth. The truth isn't liberal or conservative. It's just the truth.
The fact anybody would defend more is proof this country is majorly screwed, where partisanship counts more than right and wrong. We're doomed as a nation.
Howard,your last paragraph sums up the political mood of this country at this time,and I thought the same after the 2016 election.We are in a full blown morals crisis.
Why can't I see these polls using Firefox browser? Anyone else using Firefox and can see/answer the poll?
Brian, I use Firefox and Google and I can see the polls on both. As I post this it is 240 Votes Yes at 36.31% and 421 Votes No at 63.69%.
The Claims against Roy Moore come from 35-38 years ago -YET only now are they so noteworthy as to be grounds to hang this guy Even after the Several Political dust ups in his past. Where they could have been used against him !
This is Not great journalism by the Wa-Po [an ultra liberal cat pan liner ] This was Nothing more than digging DIRT just before an election to use against the Hated republican !!
Something tells me to follow the Money=> as In I wonder how much cash was handed over to Lubricate the Lips of said wronged young ladies !!
There’s a special place in hell for you and guys like you Randy.
We’re talking about kids here, being taken advantage of by a perverted grown man.
Please tell me what they would possibly have to gain by inserting themselves into this situation? They still have to LIVE THERE!!!
Everything isn’t a liberal conspiracy
Dave, did you see that House Minority Leader, Nancy Pelosi has said that the clearly guilty Congressman Conyers should get due process when asked if he should step down from Congress? And yet you would deny the same due process to the probably guilty Moore. Is due process only for Liberal Democrats?
John, isn't there a difference between granting or denying due process to somebody who already holds a position vs. whether to vote for a person or not? One has to do with the rights of an accused. The other has to do with the rights of each individual voter. The voter has a right to be as fully as informed as possible about the character, or lack of it, of their candidates and to be exposed to the pro and con of public opinion.
Howard, my point here is not voters, they will do what they want, but David's being willing to deny Moore due process. True, it looks like he's guilty, but no real proof yet. Conyers paid off one woman for sure (with tax money) and that is on record. There might be more he paid off and more women are coming forward. If you say voters should not vote for Moore, based on what we know, then Conyers, who is already there should be forced to leave. Same for Franken, who we have photographic evidence of blatant sexual misbehavior.
Jeezus John, please READ what I said about Conyers in post #5
There are at least two salient factors that have been overlooked in this discussion: 1) Despite Alabama's legal age of consent having been 16 when the alleged offenses occurred, should complaints have been made, charges initiated and prosecuted, most would have been felonies or at least misdemeanors. However... The statute of limitations bearing on all of the currently reported allegations prohibits prosecution. The "due process" that Mr. Roach awaits isn't going to happen. 2) There is a key difference between the accusations aimed at Roy Moore and those aimed at Al Franken. Age of the accuser at the time of the offense.
Dave, the question was should Conyers be given "due process" when Moore does not get it? And what about Franken? Should he just be removed from Congress?
Please see my post #5 then post #25
John, your disingenuousness makes me want to scream. Do you really think teenage girls in the 1970s in Alabama would have had a hope in heck of being believed over a male district attorney who threatened them? Are you unaware that Moore has been currently threatening them?? Apparently you are also unaware of the fact that the women were approached by the Washington Post; NOT the other way around.
Well elderly Joseph sexually assaulted underage Mary and ended up with Jesus so 30- something Roy Moore can “date” underage girls, get banned from the local mall and require Alabama State police supervision while attempting to sexually assault teenage girls and cheerleaders, with Republican blessing.
Any decent, critical thinking human being can clearly see what Moore is, and what slovenly reprehensible Bannon and Repubs are trying to do to Mr. Franken, who immediately called for an ethics investigation into HIMself, and which Leann Tweeden mysteriously doesn’t want. Take Dave’s advice and Google her if you genuinely believe she was traumatized, and not USED as political retribution for Mr. Franken’s annihilation of the perjured gnome Sessions.
But it’s really nice to see some men on here expressing such deep authentic concern for the well being of abused women rather than politics and I’m sure they are as supportive of the victims of the pathological self confessed “grabber” currently squatting and corrupting the White House and destroying the country.
Julie, read carefully. I did not defend Moore at all. I said he probably is guilty and a pervert.
And again, what will an Ethics investigation of Franken do? Investigate what? He guilty as hell and Liberals have not called on him to leave the Senate. What more do you need-there is a picture of Franken, that he had taken of him molesting a sleeping woman. And more women have come forward about him. Where is your outrage?
John "He guilty as hell ... "
"molesting a sleeping woman ... " based on what evidence?
Better take a closer look at that photo. He isn't touching her.
So what crime did he commit? (See comment on other thread)
Howard, to me, that photo is sexual harassment.. And the photo was taken after she said he earlier stuck his tongue in her mouth.
dave meyer. post # 25. for you are the person we should all follow and worship your words.
you know the answers, you know what is right and what is wrong. If any person does not agree with your superior thoughts they fall to being stupid.. yes sir dave meyer, I disagree with a lot of what you have posted in this thread there for I must be stupid.... That's ok dave meyer, I can live with being called stupid. However every person who reads your post can judge for them selves who's really stupid.