It only took one vote to prevent the Batavia City Council on Monday from passing a ban on drinking in public parks. But stopping passage of the ordinance change is only temporary.
The city council will likely vote on the proposed ordinance at its next business meeting in August, and with only three dissenting views on council, it will likely pass.
Rosemary Christian, Kathy Briggs and Sam Barone all cast no votes.
Christian clashed with Council President Marianne Clattenburg over the proposed change in the law as well as a new policy making the parks tobacco-free zones.
Christian, a smoker, objects to the policy change on smoking in public parks without the creation of designated smoking areas.
Twice Clattenburg gavelled down Christian as she argued over the smoking policy.
The policy isn't a law. Legally people can still smoke in the parks, but police officers will be instructed to ask smokers not to smoke or to leave if they want to continue smoking.
Signs will be posted informing park patrons that the areas are tobacco-free areas.
As for drinking, Christian is concerned that the change in the ordinance will prohibit the seemingly innocent pastime of a couple enjoying a picnic with beer.
From WBTA:
"You mean to tell me you can't go with your friend or your husband, and have a little picnic...and then you have a beer and you're going to be arrested?" she asked.
"Do you really think that's going to happen?" Clattenburg asked. "I sure hope not, but what's the point of even passing it?" Christian fired back.
"We have an issue...people loitering and drinking in our parks. That's what we're trying to fix here," Clattenburg said. "It's got nothing to do with you and your honey having a beer on a picnic," she added.
The exchange opened a discussion about how police can't enforce the law against one group of people, or say you can have two beers but not four.
Because we're already in the middle of summer, the bill was being fast-tracked so enforcement could begin immediately, but under state regulations, a fast-track bill requires unanimous approval. Because of the three no votes, the bill is not yet law. The council will vote again -- when a simply majority is all that's needed for passage -- at its August business meeting.
For full coverage from The Batavian's news partner, WBTA, click here.
Really...mud slinging? That's
Really...mud slinging? That's unprofessional, and un-Christian-like, Ms. Clattenberg. I'm disappointed. Come on. There is a littering law, if that's what you are concerned about. How about enforcing what we have? Or better yet, we have lots of folks looking to do some community service (or an entire jail of guys watching cable) ... get them out there to pick up the parks. Tit-for-tat. Shameful.
"The policy isn't a law.
"The policy isn't a law. Legally, people can still smoke in the parks, but police officers will be instructed to ask smokers in the parks to leave if they want to smoke or not smoke." I'm a little confused (Normal condition), if you are asked to leave or not smoke and you stay and keep smoking, what happens then?
As for the alcohol law, Ms. Christian is correct, why have a law if you may or not enforce it? That is just setting the city up for a discrimination suit.
"if you are asked to leave or
"if you are asked to leave or not smoke and you stay and keep smoking, what happens then?"
The $64,000 question.
Wish our council was made up
Wish our council was made up of a bunch of Rosemary Christian clones. Her common sense reminds me so much of the late Florence Gioia (I think she was a county legislator).
This is America people!!!
This is America people!!! Free country, REALLY???? Stop trying to make your personal preferences laws...the police are better needed somewhere else stopping real crime instead of monitoring parks for christ sakes! Really this is all they could come up with to argue about? The president needs to come down a notch and look at what the real problems in the city are.
To show how stupid this is,
To show how stupid this is, you can not stand on the grass at Austin Park now and smoke. But you can take one step back onto the sidewalk, and smoke. And now all the smokers will be bunched together on the sidewalk instead of disbursed as before. Yep, great idea.
At about 8:15 AM today, I watched a guy walking across Austin Park, smoking a cigarette. There was nobody else in that park, so tell me how you, or I, were harmed.
This is just a case of council members like Frank Ferrando, Bill Cox, Bob Bialkowski and others thinking they have to tell you how to live. They know best what's good for you.
As for what happens if you are asked by a Police Officer to leave, and you don't, you'll get arrested.
This was not a public health policy, it was all about control
John; if it's not a law, what
John; if it's not a law, what would the charge be for arrest?
Dave, refusing a lawful order
Dave, refusing a lawful order of a police officer. Smoking is not allowed and while you can not be fined for smoking, the policy says you can be told to leave if you do not stop. When the officer asks you to leave, and you tell him "NO", and keep smoking, what do you think the officer will do?
And then a judge would need
And then a judge would need to decide if it was a lawful order.
Is it a lawful order if you're told not to do something that is legal for you to do?
The officer will most likely
The officer will most likely arrest you John for failing to obey a police officer. They will come up with something. Why isn't it a law?
It's a "policy" because that
It's a "policy" because that sounded better than passing another "law" to regulate you. You have to keep in mind this is an election year.
As a parent of 4 children and
As a parent of 4 children and also a person who volunteers at the concession stand every summer--the no drinking law is much more of an importance than the smoking one due to the fact that there are soooooooooo many people there drinking by 11am and they are not polite and cause alot of trouble. Last year alone the police were called a number of times due to people being rude and outright abusing other people in the park. I don't feel comfortable taking my kids to the water park due to this fact--when those who do drink all day or drink while at the park, it impacts many people -- more than just a couple who wants to drink--think of all of the families that enjoy going to the park and cannot due to this! I am outraged that they argued about a beer or two?! Stay home and drink your beer because really do kids need to see that at a park ?!
and to add to it..I thought
and to add to it..I thought you needed a permit to have alcohol in a park in the city of batavia?! maybe that has changed?!
John, if it's legal to smoke
John, if it's legal to smoke in the park, then it's not lawful for a police officer to make you stop. It's a ridiculous waste of time and money for the police. Either make a law or don't. Same with the alcohol.
Dave, you're right, it is
Dave, you're right, it is ridiculous. But that is how they wrote this ridiculous policy. Problem is, only two of us showed up to speak against it. Now we have to wait until November. Maybe a change is council membership will be able to stop any more of this type of thing.
If the issue is people
If the issue is people drinking and their behavior becoming disorderly, than it's another issue. As adults we have the right to drink (I prefer the quiet surroundings of my home). The problem isn't alcohol. It's people. Enforce the laws we already have. If disorderly, then call the police - for disorderly conduct. If littering, call the police - for littering. Don't make this an issue it's not.
This is so dumb. Hey I have
This is so dumb.
Hey I have a question...when is someone going to fix my road/sidewalk on my street. Try pushing a stroller down that mug...now that's dangerous.
The drinking issue came up
The drinking issue came up only because 1 council person was at a park with a group of children. There were some people at the park who were drinking. They were not drunk, disorderly, loud or littering. They were just there too long.
I didn't know there was a time limit to just sit in the park. How many hours can you be there before it is considered loitering?
Maybe they had nothing better to do, so what? They were doing nothing wrong, but it bothered her, so now we have to have a law.
I still find it hysterical
I still find it hysterical that people would actually go to a park just to drink. I mean...wow. Maybe that's normal to people who grew up here, but where I'm from, you'd be the "town drunk" if you did something like that.
Oh well...different strokes I guess.
Phil, good point, but should
Phil, good point, but should they be regulated out of the park just because they do something we think is odd?
I was under the impression
I was under the impression that you had to obtain a permit if you wanted to consume alcohol in the park.
Regardless, if someone wants to sit on a bench with a beer (in a can, not bottle thanks Howard) and give themselves a buzz peacefully...well that's creepy, but I guess just fine.
We have laws in place for disorderly conduct, so if a group of people are drinking and being rowdy then you should call the cops anyway.
Either way, I would still like my roads and sidewalk question answered. That actually means something to me, and is a real public safety issue.
Phil, no permit needed, at
Phil, no permit needed, at least not until next month. The permit/fee was if you wanted to reserve a pavilion.
And how silly of you to worry about your sidewalk. You need to be regulated.
The last time I went to a
The last time I went to a public park I ended up loitering. I didn't smoke, drink, use foul language, let my kids run around unattended, let my dog run around and crap everywhere, litter. I just went to loiter.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/loiter
Gabor, you need to be
Gabor, you need to be regulated.
Phil almost hit on the
Phil almost hit on the solution to the smoking and drinking in the parks:
Whoever is caught smoking, has to fill one pothole on one of our fine thoroughfares.
If you are caught drinking, you have to repair one section of sidewalk - street of your choice.
And God forbid, if you are caught smoking AND drinking, you have to attend at least 2 Batavia City Council Meetings ! !
Richard, at least you found a
Richard, at least you found a way to fix sidewalks.
Richard; I'll bet most caught
Richard; I'll bet most caught smoking AND drinking won't do it again !