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More on cyberbullying

By Howard B. Owens

Nothing The Batavian has ever published has elicited quite the response as an item we published this morning on cyberbullying.

Whether by comments here, by private email, by Facebook comments or by Twitter, there's been a lot of discussion of the piece.

The feedback has been both favorable and harshly negative, and the negative messages have been fueled by misunderstanding the post, the nature of The Batavian, journalism in general and too much of it, sadly, expressing acceptance of bullying.

One point the critics got right is that a key element of the post was missing -- one of the people portrayed as victimized by bullies has a history -- at least judging from the screen shots sent to us -- of bullying others.

The author admits (remember, as some people seem to have missed, I didn't write the piece), that he didn't see the person's status updates and comments that apparently prompted other people to lash out at her. She deleted them before he saw what he saw on Facebook.

We've both seen those status updates now, and they're pretty ugly.

But the fact those updates were not included in the original post, according to some, made "the story" one-sided.

But it wasn't a story. It was an opinion piece, an op-ed, as I referred to it in the post. As much as anything, it was a public service announcement against bullying. It keyed off screen grabs taken from recent posts by local kids and referred to a recent case, but it wasn't about those incidents. It was about dealing with cyberbullying.

That point was missed by some, appreciated by others.

The reactions I found most troubling:

  • She did it first, therefore my bullying her is OK.
  • Everybody gets bullied, so what's the big deal?
  • It's just a little Facebook argument and now the media is making it into a big drama.
  • The person getting bullied shares the blame because he or she could make it stop if he or she wanted.

My position: bullying is wrong, in all cases. There's no justification for it. It's not something you can excuse away or just expect a victim to deal with it. It's morally reprehensible on its face.

And it doesn't matter if the other person was a jerk first. Anybody that would bully under those circumstances would bully under many other circumstances.

One person quoted to me, "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me." My response: that's a lie. It's a lie told by parents at a time when their kids are hurting. It's not a life philosophy. The fact is, words leave marks. Words can hurt. Words matter.

But it seems there's a group of young people in Genesee County who don't understand that, or don't want to understand it.

And that's the real issue, not who bullied who first, and that point seems to have been lost.

People say the "story" was one-sided, but it was in fact "no-sided." No names were used.

The names weren't used because who the actual participants were, and the actual sequence of events, were immaterial to the real issue that needed to be discussed. If you weren't directly involved -- and most of our readers were not, I'm sure -- you wouldn't know who any of the participants were.

The issue was bullying, not who did what to whom. The examples used were exactly that: real life examples, current examples.

The more readily people grasp the fact that bullying is a serious issue, the easier it will be to deal with it.  The best thing that came out of the posting today is it got a lot of people talking about a very important issue, even if some of them didn't see the real issue in their fog of confusion while defending their own actions.

Bea McManis

I recall a conversation, here, a while back on bullying. I believe it was about the time when the Elba school first held a program on it. One reader, who no longer posts to the site, made a comment about his tax money being ill spent to have local law enforcement take part in the program.
He, like some today, felt that being a bully is part and parcel of growing up. If the victim can't take it, well too bad for him/her. He also advocated physical violence as the cure all for being bullied.
A bully doesn't grow out of it. He becomes the man who will look at a rape victim and says, "grow a pair and get over it". She becomes the woman who can viciously destroy another's reputation without batting an eyelash.
Your op-ed piece was spot on. Thanks for posting it.

Jan 4, 2012, 9:29pm Permalink
Daniel Jones

Phil - I do criticize the district when I disagree with the board and the superintendent, but I think that it's unfortunate that districts hands are tied on this issue. I think that the state should give local districts, like Batavia, some teeth to deal with cyberbullying such as the ability to discipline and expel.

Jan 5, 2012, 12:23am Permalink
amber hackett

To be completely honest some people do bring the bullying upon themselves, while others simply do not. Maybe to get real examples you should have gotten them from a different county, then many wouldn't have recognized them. The fact of the matter OS bullying has been around forever! People who aren't standing up for themselves obviously must not know how. And the sticks and stones saying was always said so you could look at what was said a brush it off. If someone takes the things that are said seriously then they've got issues because its high school. When you were younger was bullying made out to be such a big deal? No. People were smart and didn't have some of the messed up thoughts that kids have today. The story from earlier may not have been ment to show anything but examples of cyber bullying but the examples posted were all about the same person. Who in fact is the one starting all the problems with others. That person is the one who normally makes someone feel like crap. Examples would be her posting pictures of others making fun of them and status's. In all reality it comes back to the original "bully" being insecure about themselves or they probably wouldn'tbe doing it to others.

Jan 5, 2012, 7:41am Permalink
Jessica Richardson

Now, I don't know much about this, only a little from what I've read on my own facebook, but some of the people involved are past school age, so even if the school districts wanted to/ could get involved, it wouldn't do much good in this particular case.

Jan 5, 2012, 9:58am Permalink
Shannon Laurer

Bullying is NOT what it was 20 yrs ago! With the new age of technology and instant access and parents willing to take their child anywhere they want to go to socialize instead of saying "go outside and play" has changed up what bullying is! It's no longer that disagreement with the neighbor kid cause he kicked your butt in street baseball but groups of kids ganging up on an individual via phone, text, IM, FB, PM, Email, Live PS3, Facetime and even Skype. This is no longer the face to face confrontation of one kid ticked off with another. In most instances these same people in the blog probably interact as if nothing happened in person but once behind a keyboard feel superior! This is where the parents need to become involved and know what their children are posting, texting, ect and making it be known it is not acceptable! Bullying will never again be "I'll meet you out back of the school and we'll settle this" but instead has become "How many people can I get to "like" this so I can feel good about myself" It's a sad, sad world we live in!

Jan 5, 2012, 10:09am Permalink
Dave Olsen

Good Point Shannon; we see it right here on the Batavian. I'm sure many people wouldn't say the things they write on here if we were all in a room conversing.

Jan 5, 2012, 10:15am Permalink
Kyle Couchman

Amber.... once again your motivations are in question? As has been pointed out here several times, bullying is wrong. Theres no justification, theres no excuses, theres no reasons for it to be allowed. It wasnt right back in the day, its not right now. This who started what is frankly just BS.

As for your comment that some people bring the bullying on themselves. That is just about as incorrect as a ststement can get. The kind that someone who is a bully would say to defend their behavior. The victim is usually just that a victim that feels helpless and hopeless, the only way I can see you coming to that conclusion is by witnessing a victim lash out or fight back as they sometimes do, and usually they fail miserable or are manipulated into looking like the aggressor. Thats how bullies do what they do they do it behind the backs of authorities or on the sly where there is no possibility of teir actions being seen by anyone who would stand up against them. This is the very thing about bullies that make them so hard to pin down.

Wake up and look past the obvious.

Jan 5, 2012, 1:53pm Permalink
amber hackett

Umm how bout this girl is the one who is bashing people before they lash out at her, she then deleted her status to make herself look like t he victim. Pathetic if you ask me.plus she has had the nerve to bash people with special needs. I'm sorry to say that karma is a Bitch and all these people who are lashing out at her is because she is bashing them. Therefore I feel she has everything coming to her. Bullying may not be the same as it used to be but some people are taking it way to seriously.

Jan 5, 2012, 4:31pm Permalink
Leah Cargill

Here's the thing: bullying always has been and always will be a part of life. The thing is these days is that kids are too sensitive and are patted on the back for every little thing they do right. They have no sense of real accomplishment. My parents used to tell me stories about high school and bullying and all sorts of things. Now-a-days if any of that happened, we'd all be in deep doo-doo. I understand that the computer makes it a lot worse, but my philosophy is that you need to be tough. Going through life crying or making a big deal every time you get called a name isn't going to help you out at all. And if you have the nerve to bully someone yourself, you should be prepared to deal with the consequences. I don't think that bullying is a good thing. But it's natural. It's what kids do. Maybe if kids had thicker skin it wouldn't be such an issue. The people doing the bullying obviously have issues of their own, and perhaps the schools should be working to help these troubled kids rather than just punishing them.

Jan 5, 2012, 5:37pm Permalink
Leah Cargill

I agree, Sharon. Bullying has gotten worse with technology. Maybe these sites should be age restricted, although hard to enforce. Perhaps if these sites made you sign up with a credit card number (as identification of age).

Jan 5, 2012, 5:41pm Permalink
Kyle Couchman

You still dont get it do you Amber..... Someone sets fire to your house, you dont go set fire to theirs now do you. Then you both end up in jail and one is no better or worse than the other. Bullying is wrong and attitudes like Leahs are what enable bullies to even more nowadays. acceptance and dismissal of the bullies actions just enable them to do more and meaner things knowing there will be no consequences. Being a kleptomaniac is a natural conditions so is being a psychopath or a pyromaniac, they arent as accepted and frowned upon but I guess that being a bully is ok though.

Jan 5, 2012, 7:49pm Permalink
Brett Orr

Odd how there is a argument on whether or not bullying is wrong. "brings the bullying on themselves" ? "Karma is a bitch"? "Has this coming to her"? Are you friggin kidding me? NO ONE likes to be treated like garbage. No one should be. Sadly this is the world we live in. Bully or be bullied. Computers and phones certainly add to the problem but they are not the cause. The Y generation has become so violent because this is what we have raised them to be. At some point the whole concept of "The Golden Rule" evaporated. We as a culture have completely forgotten how install morals and consideration into our children. The teenage girls prance around town basically naked because at some point we forgot to teach them self respect. Kids are bullied to the point of suicide because we have stopped installing the idea of equality in them. They have grown up in a world where political parties run smear campaigns and destroy reputations so they can be the winner. They grow up in a world where they have been taught the only way they can rise is by tearing others down. It didn't start with this generation. It has been this way since the dawn of time. It just has gotten to a whole new violent and ugly level. Even not that long ago when I was in school there was bullying but nothing like this. Some harsh words maybe a trip out to the flagpole and then that was the end.
But to say that someone deserves to be bullied is just wrong. PARENTS this is ours to fix. To the bullied we need to be there and show them that they are loved and that the opinions of others is not the end of the world. To the bullies we need to teach them how powerful and harmful their words are. We need to re install morals, values and the difference between right and wrong. We need to stop blaming others for the wrong doings of our children and take responsibility for our own failures. The end to bullying starts in our homes. Teach our children the honor of being a good person. Teach our children to reach out to the hurting rather than jump on the "bashing" band wagon. Rather than complain about your tax dollars being spent on something so stupid be thankful that your tax dollars may have saved you child's life. I will GLADLY pay to have bullying programs in school. To help the hurt and to reprimand the aggressors.

Jan 5, 2012, 9:13pm Permalink
Leah Cargill

Actually, Kyle, I was bullied as a kid. I was bullied all the time. Always about how I looked and even as I got older people continued to make jokes. But you know what made a difference between me and other "victims"? I didn't act like a victim. I held my head up every day and brushed it off of my shoulders. Bullying hurts, yeah, but being weak and playing the victim doesn't do anyone any justice. A person that is bullied should brush it off and act tough, even though it hurts, because acting like it doesn't bother you is what makes it stop faster. Crying and making a social media issue doesn't help. And I have no idea where pyromaniacs and bullying come together. No one said anything about setting fires.

Jan 6, 2012, 6:30pm Permalink
Kyle Couchman

Leah do you realize you contradict yourself in trying to make your point?

You say this: Actually, Kyle, I was bullied as a kid. I was bullied all the time. Always about how I looked and even as I got older people continued to make jokes.

Then you go on to say...A person that is bullied should brush it off and act tough, even though it hurts, because acting like it doesn't bother you is what makes it stop faster.

Obviously by your own admission it didnt stop. Just because you chose to deal with it like this doesnt give anyone a free pass to bully anyone else. Ignoring the problem and pretending it doesnt bother you, brushing it off so to speak has gotten us us where exactly? Bullying is still around, and its worse. As for the pyromania, you make my point clearly, we can punish pyromaniacs and all sorts of other natural conditions like kleptomania and such but according to you we should just teach the victim to act differently.

Thats like saying we should teach rape victims to act less sexual then they wouldnt be raped. Same argument.

As a matter of fact everyone reading this go to Leah's comment #18 and replace the word bully with rape. Does anyone think her argument sounds a bit silly and weak with that comparison? Then why do we treat bullies differently.

Jan 6, 2012, 7:31pm Permalink

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