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September 30, 2013 - 7:27am

Today's Poll: Should the government be shut down to stop Obamacare?

posted by Howard B. Owens in polls.
John Stone
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Basically doesn't really matter WHAT has to happen, but this obamanable a law just needs to go away... NO MATTER WHAT!
Once in place, it will basically END the Republic. If someone wants to challenge this assertion, come with some FACTS as opposed to the usual rhetoric, please... Most folks know not of what they speak. (Oh... don't let the pundits tell you that we just CAN'T allow government to shut down. It actually happens all the time, and I don't know of a person who has been harmed in the past by one of the many previous shut-downs. Maybe a few civil-servants have to shuffle a couple of their comp days, but in the overall scheme, it really makes no difference...)

Kyle Couchman
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John I am gonna ask that you hold yourself up to that same standard. What FACTS do you have that this "Obamacare Law" will basically end the Republic?

Just like Women's sufferage, emancipation act, and prohibition... it's just another act of our Govt. Prohibition was repealed, women's voting rights and slavery werent. All of these laws and amendments were argued as being THE ONE to end the republic as we knew it.

It did change our republic though, some for better some for worse but either way change has to occur otherwise things become stagnant. Its not easy to change back but nothing is irreversable.

Justin Burger
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"Maybe a few civil-servants have to shuffle a couple of their comp days, but in the overall scheme, it really makes no difference..."

Not quite.
I know someone who works for the Federal Court, and said if the government shuts down, they get no paycheck. They do have to report to work still, and if they refuse they can be fired for insubordination. Forced to work for free is hardly shuffling a couple comp days.

Ken Herrmann
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It happens all the time? How often, when ? The Afforable Care Act will end the Republic? Having most people get health insurance, not cancelling health insurance for pre-existing conditions, keeping youth on the parents' insurance, will end the Republic? You ask for facts. I suppose you might share a few to support your foolish claim.

Ted Wenzka
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They won't lose any money. They will get withheld pay in later paychecks.

Justin Burger
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It can still cause havoc if you have a bill (or bills) due, and expected that money to be there.

Tim Miller
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Not to mention the folks in the Armed Forces... they'll get IOUs, not real money on payday.

I wonder how many landlords and grocery stores will take IOUs from soldiers' families. Gas stations? {sigh}

John Roach
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Tim,
Both parties have said they will pass a separate bill to pay the military "real" money.

terry paine
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This could be fixed so easy. If the people that voted in 2008 and 2012 for 3.6 trillion in yearly spending would just pay their fair share nobody would be talking about a shut down.

Tim Miller
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Terry - how about this scenario... the party that claims to be the party of responsibility, the one that derides scofflaws who fail to pay their bills, the party that is the "fiscally responsible" party (well, unless THEIR guy is in office) look at the obligations that the U.S. Government (Congress) has made, via laws passed by Congress, and actually fulfill those obligations?

Rather than playing politics and risking whatever faith people have left in our financial system, do the right thing and fulfill the financial commitments THEY helped make!

Jeff Allen
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I asked a whole bunch of people today if they remembered the last time the government shut down and to a person, no one did. The last shut down was Dec. 95 to Jan. 96. In fact the government has shut down 17 times since 1976. The sky didn't fall, the National Guard didn't have to patrol streets in chaos, people didn't have their houses go into foreclosure, families didn't go without meals, and so on. Government shutdowns are now nothing more than blips on the radar. Almost every function has been deemed essential, the military has already gotten their waiver, food stamps will continue, S.S. checks will still go out, etc. It's time for both sides to ratchet down the rhetoric since an actual shutdown will do nothing more than the vaunted sequestration that promised Armageddon like catastrophe and which we are still in. The real question that should be asked is why 5 years into Obamas administration when he had all 3 branches under his belt for the first two years and 2/3 for the last 3 years are we even staring down a government shutdown? Why after the historic Stimulus, the "Recovery Summer", the success of green energy investments, "saving the auto industry", reducing the deficit by half before the end of his first term??? are we we even talking about a potential government shutdown? Why hasn't our debt to spending ratio been brought under control in 5 years? Instead of flying around the country at $300,000 per hour campaigning for a bill that is already a law and blaming everyone else for it's failure, doesn't our President stay in Washington, look in a mirror, stop negotiating with every yahoo nimrod leader of a country that hates us and DO HIS JOB and work within the leadership structure of our own government and hammer out a tangible solution as opposed to playing blame and run.

Mark Brudz
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EXACTLY JEFF, I put that in a post last week same thing, except I also pointed out that it has shut down 4 times since the year 2000 and three of them by the party that is now crying foul.

Mark Brudz
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Fact from health and human services itself Ken

30 MILLION people will still not have health insurance for at least 10 years out

Debbie Pugliese
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On May 16, the Republican-led U.S. House of Representatives held its 37th vote to repeal the Affordable Care Act that was enacted in 2010. Because the U.S. Senate is controlled by Democrats, the House had no real chance to repeal the law. As the Washington Post reported that day, its main purpose was to give Republicans a platform to bring up their objections to the law they call "Obamacare."

Holmes County Republican Rep. Bob Gibbs was eager to take advantage of that opportunity. Before the vote, he delivered a House of Representatives floor speech in which he described the law as "detrimental to all Americans" and said that if the U.S. Senate "really wants to pass a jobs bill, then they should listen to the American people and support repeal and replace."

The next day, Gibbs used his Twitter account to decry the law further. "If #Obamacare is fully implemented, 30 million people will still be without health insurance," Gibbs tweeted.

We decided to check out Gibbs’ claim that so many people would still be without health insurance after the bill is fully implemented. Although Gibbs’ office did not respond to requests to document his information, we found a Congressional Budget Office analysis released three days before Gibbs’ remark that stated: "In our current projections for 2023, the ACA reduces the number of people without health insurance by 25 million, leaving 31 million uninsured (compared with 30 million in our February estimate)." That’s close to the number that Gibbs provided.

A widely circulated CBO report from last summer said the "ACA, in comparison with prior law before the enactment of the ACA, will reduce the number of nonelderly people without health insurance coverage by 14 million in 2014 and by 29 million or 30 million in the latter part of the coming decade, leaving 30 million nonelderly residents uninsured by the end of the period."

Gibbs’ statement that 30 million people will be uninsured after the health care law’s full implementation is close to the CBO’s latest estimate, but it ignores a key fact: the number of people without insurance would be much higher without the law. In the next 10 years, 25 million nonelderly people who don’t have insurance now would gain insurance under the bill. That’s important context that Gibbs overlooks in his tweet. According to CBO, the insurance rate for the nation’s non-elderly residents is predicted to rise from 80 percent this year to 90 percent in 2023.

While Gibbs is right that many people will not have insurance after the law is implemented, his statement fails to acknowledge that it will enable millions of people to get insurance. We rule his statement Mostly True.

http://www.politifact.com/ohio/statements/2013/jun/10/bob-gibbs/rep-bob-...

Debbie Pugliese
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Mark,

Please provide when the Federal Govt has shut down AFTER 1996.

Debbie Pugliese
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Jeff,

Obama did not have all 3 branches for the first 2 years.

http://538refugees.wordpress.com/2011/06/22/the-democratic-super-majorit...

Mark Brudz
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You got me Deb, I reread my source they were near shutdowns Not actual shutdowns, I stand corrected

Jeff Allen
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Debbie, of all that I stated, that is the best you can come up with? He had a super majority for more than half of his first two years. As close to as possible for the remaining 11 months. You are drawing at straws now. The bottom line is he is out of excuses, out of others to blame, and out of political capital. I admire your commitment to Obama, and being a spokesperson for one of the worst pieces of legislation to come down the pike in decades, but this abhorrence of a law cannot be defended on any reasonable level. And just to be fair, I am disgusted with many of the Republicans who have proven to be nothing more than party line yes men who have abandon the principles they ran on in order to vote on something passable.
Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost. - John Quincy Adams
Too few in government are willing to vote alone anymore.

Ken Herrmann
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Yes, you are correct. Looks like we need single-player healtyh care to resolve this.

david spaulding
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I tried so hard for years to get me one of those government jobs.....

from what the question asks, I take it that if the government shuts down, obamycare is gone......maybe one of you intellectuals can explain it to me.....

Debbie Pugliese
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So Jeff first it was 2 years then it was more than half of 2 years....but you are still wrong

"Depending upon which metric is used, Democrats had a super majority for roughly six months which includes the seven weeks between Franken’s swearing-in on July 8 to Ted Kennedy’s death on August 25 and the four months and nine days between Paul Kirk’s swearing-in on September 25, 2009 to his replacement by Scott Brown on February 4, 2010. This was just barely enough time to pass the biggest and most difficult health care legislation in generations; an event that would likely never have happened under any other circumstances. This also happened under the onslaught of every procedural obstruction the Republicans could put in its path."

And regarding your 2/3 claim...perhaps you forgot the filibusters that have occurred in the Senate?
-----

You think the shutdown will affect no one? Tell that to all the people in this link..

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2013/09/politics/government-shutdown-impa...

Then factor in the ripple effect of the money these people will not be injecting into the economy.

So you say it wont affect you directly...well bully for you and count your blessings.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/09/29/questions-and-ans...
----
I am not a "spokesperson" for anything. I have said it isnt perfect. I have also said why dont the Republicans let it take effect and scoop in and just be the saviors if it the earth stops revolving around the sun as they claim...and take all 3 branches. IMO they are TERRIFIED people will like it.

Debbie Pugliese
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No Dave,

Shutdown does nothing to stop ACA

32. Would a shutdown put the brakes on implementing the Affordable Care Act, or "Obamacare?" No. The state-run exchanges for the uninsured would open as scheduled Tuesday. "The marketplaces will be open on Tuesday, no matter what, even if there is a government shutdown," President Obama said Friday.

ACA implementation can proceed because it is mandatory spending not tied to the annual appropriations bills.

david spaulding
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thanks Debbie for explaining that for me........but just the same, I hope the government shuts down, I hope for the worst....only a matter of time before this country becomes third world.....I want to see it in my lifetime........
......gave proof through the night..................

John Woodworth JR
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Why are we facing a government shut down? Not because of Obamacare only. It is our government abusing their power, their failure to defeat and keep corruption out of our welfare, social security and medical systems. There is great amount of fraud in these systems due to government giving handouts without limits or guidelines being enforced. We have a government who goes with the minority rather than the majority. More than half of Americans want to postpone Obamacare for a year. However, Obama is blaming the Republicans for holding Obamacare as ransom. How about the American people get to vote on this? Our government has already shown their inability to vote for the majority. Obama is not willing to work with Congress he has displayed that numerous times. Obama is a fraud himself. He broken numerous promises he has made to the American People, he holds himself to a different standard. He has been caught in lie after lie. For those of you who support Obamacare why, is our government officials exempted? Why is big business and labor unions getting a pass?

BTW, Congressman Collins insulted the working man. He wants to pass a bill that keeps Congress, Senate, and the President from receiving pay while in a shut down. Really, they are wealthy, do you think keeping them from receiving a portion of 350K matters or affects them? Heck NO! They collect their pay while the American People suffer for their inability to budget our country's finances. They are corrupt and abusive. Now I am losing pay for who knows how long. I am going to be unable to pay bills on time. I am a single income for my family and struggle financially. Obamacare is only a faction of the problem. For those who are upset yet voted for Obama, you lost your right to be upset you should of known this was coming. Democrats blames the Republicans yet, they are both responsible more so the Democrats.

Mark Brudz
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That is the absolute last thing that we need

Debbie Pugliese
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Mr. Woodworth,

You say half of the Americans want "Obamacare" delayed a year? What about the MAJORITY who voted for President Obama instead of Romney who ran on repealing ACA and LOST? Do those 65,915,796 votes mean nothing?

Also I do not believe for one split second that a Party that voted for 40 times SO FAR to repeal the law want this delay for anything else other than stalling time until 2014...more time to spread their lies and fear til Election time is upon us again?

You are Welcome David but I cant agree with your wish for a shutdown. I have no desire to see people thrown into chaos (and that is what will happen to families who suddenly receive no paycheck) just so some politicians can score political points..on EITHER side.

Jeff Allen
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Debbie, when you continue to argue semantics that have nothing to do with the original debate it weakens your argument. If this law is so wonderful the party breakdown of the house would not have mattered anyway. Republicans called it out for what it was, were slandered 8 ways to Sunday for it and are now proving to have been spot on about it's content, cost, job killing effect, and economic drain. Even some of the most ardent Obama supporters agree that this is a mess. It's ok to call crap for what it is or at the very least agree that you were hoodwinked by the lies Obama sold all of us. This is the most convoluted, overreachiing, inconsistent, misleading, oversold piece of legislation in American history...period.

Jeff Allen
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Debbie, when you continue to argue semantics that have nothing to do with the original debate it weakens your argument. If this law is so wonderful the party breakdown of the house would not have mattered anyway. Republicans called it out for what it was, were slandered 8 ways to Sunday for it and are now proving to have been spot on about it's content, cost, job killing effect, and economic drain. Even some of the most ardent Obama supporters agree that this is a mess. It's ok to call crap for what it is or at the very least agree that you were hoodwinked by the lies Obama sold all of us. This is the most convoluted, overreachiing, inconsistent, misleading, oversold piece of legislation in American history...period.

Mark Brudz
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Debbie, that same election saw overwhelming gains in the House that specifically ran to repeal Obamacare

The President ran a very effective care NOT on touting Obamacare, but in data mining specific interest groups and Demonizing Romney with many stories and incidents from his past that we now KNOW were not true.

The heated primary battle significantly crippled Romney and he never won full support of the Republican party. Also at the time, it was He was also hobbled by some off the main path senatorial candidates that did some pretty stupid things a few weeks before the election.

The House election returns are a far better barometer than the Presidential returns although DNC Central will have you believe otherwise

Debbie Pugliese
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"Debbie, when you continue to argue semantics that have nothing to do with the original debate it weakens your argument."

Excuse me but arent you the one who brought it into the original debate in the first place?

"The real question that should be asked is why 5 years into Obamas administration when he had all 3 branches under his belt for the first two years and 2/3 for the last 3 years are we even staring down a government shutdown?"

Semantics matter when your "real question" is predicated on a misconception.

I am done with this topic...my first post on the poll from last week has my thoughts on the whole ACA and I am saying no more about it. I am not an Ardent Obama Supporter...I am a registered Democrat (for now) who votes on the Working Families line, which so far have also been the Democrat candidates...should their come a time they are not, the Democrat does not have my vote.

I have no desire to change your mind and could care less if you think its a poop sandwich or not....I will wait for it to take effect and is FULLY implemented before I jump to any conclusions and declare success or failure.

Debbie Pugliese
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So in other works Mark only the people who voted for the Republican House candidates vote count and should be taken into consideration?

ACA is a law that passed BOTH branches of congress and was upheld by the Supreme Court.

As I said...let the policy be fully implemented and then Republicans can run on Repeal if it turns out to be country-ending nightmare, they should win in a landslide then right? At the present time after 40 tries repeal has FAILED.

John Simmons
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I read all the comments here & it sounds like a kindergarten class. He did that & they do that & he is to blame & not me.. Why can't grown men & women that are supposed to be representing "We the paople" Never listen to "We the people" at all & just do as they dam well please everytime. They trade off votes on bills & act like they are working for the common good & all they are really doing is F**King up everything in government. No wonder there are people like me that don't even bother listening to them idiots in congress because they have the mentality of 3rd graders.. And even your "Faux pres." is among them too. WE the people did NOT bail out big business or give any money to other countries & never got it paid back to them.. We the people need to have a taxpayers strike, Put your tax money in a seperate tax account! IF & when the congress comes around to the right way of running the government, they will get the taxes. Up until that time, they should work for free & lose 2 days pay for every one day they don't work !! Hit them dweebs where it does the most damage, in their pocketbooks & see how quickly they start thinking right!! And lastly, THEY gave all that bailout money away so THEY should be responsible for paying US back NOT us paying it at all.. I refuse to pay for something I didn't have & I never borrowed it from anyone, so I will not pay back a red cent..

Mark Brudz
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1. I never said that, what I said is that congressional elections are simply a better barometer as it is specifically a direct election.

2, The house did in fact repeal the ACA 40 times, the Senate did not, the house members did EXACTLY what they were elected to do by their constituents. Sadly a few Senators did not. But that is how our government works, remember, a House a Senate an Executive. It was set up that way to specifically give recourse to opposition/ Whether it is something I agree with or not, I wouldn't have it any other way. To say a shutdown or a fight to repeal a law in un-American, is in itself un-American. The ACA passed without a SINGLE republican vote and contrary to the DNC line, with many alternatives that were presented that were ignored and despite the FACTY that the ACA continuously had 53-60% of population against it. Soi I say fight on, then fight on again.

And incidentally, the 2010 election the Republicans did win in a landslide, and that was directly because of Obamacare, once more, A little FACT that you liberals tend to ignore

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Elections/2010/1103/After-GOP-landslide-of-...

http://spectator.org/archives/2010/11/24/the-republican-mandate/print

Mark Brudz
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"So in other works Mark only the people who voted for the Republican House candidates vote count and should be taken into consideration? "

And we should otherwise support a law passed entirely with Democrat votes and accept that?

It cuts both ways my dear, 40 bills PASSED the house of representatives to repeal, that NEVER failed in the house. And unlike the original bill in the house that brought us the Unaffordable Healthcare Act, some democrats joined the republicans in the vote

C. M. Barons
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Health care subsidies whether paid out by private insurance companies, Medicare, Medicaid, SSI, insurance co-ops or whatever third party payer require a pool of money, ostensibly made up of healthy people contributing to help pay the bills of those who are sick and under care. The Affordable Care Act AKA "Obamacare" allows private health insurance companies to remain the primary coverage providers for most Americans. Additionally, the ACA initiates a parallel insurance option, insurance exchanges will be created- essentially insurance co-ops, that allow municipalities, states and other entities to offer customized health insurance programs. The bulk of the ACA is regulatory, providing standards of care, protection for subscribers, rate control and (the most contested aspect) mandatory participation.

The ACA requires insurance companies to provide a defined level of service. The trade-off to attain this level of service, especially when companies are prohibited from declining service to individuals with pre-existing conditions; everyone is required to have health insurance. This requirement assures that funds to pay for claims are available. The government will provide revenue above and beyond premiums paid by those who previously chose not to purchase insurance ensure adequate funding.

So (contrary to the abundance of misinformation) the ACA is NOT a health insurance program. The ACA is a collection of regulations that define how health insurance will be provisioned by the various insurance providers.

The recognizable objections to the ACA fall into two categories: insurance companies who don't like being regulated and those bent on forgoing insurance purchase until ill-health demands it. Oh- forgot the third category: the Tea Pot-hangers who think everyone is getting a free ride except for them.

terry paine
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I find it odd they had plenty of money 3 weeks ago to drop million dollar bombs on Syria now they claim to be broke.

Raymond Richardson
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How about everyone stop pointing fingers and blaming Republicans, or Democrats, as the ones who shut down the government.

It's Congress as a whole, who is to blame.

kim lawrence
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like i said before they are a bunch of 2 year olds throwing a temper tantrum because they can't get their own way... since the government shut down and all these government people are not getting paid then the people in office should forfeit their wages also till things are settled. they can't do their job??? then they shouldn't be paid. that's what would happen to all us average people...

John Woodworth JR
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First Debbie, Obamacare aka Affordable Care Act, should have been repealed and rewritten. This law was rush through without proper thought. Not to mention you have politicians put exemptions into the act for their states. Corporations and unions are getting a pass for a year to avoid fines for not implementing. Even Obama stated, he would not sign up for his own program. Our government is also exempted from signing up for Obamacare.

What I did say Debbie is that, people who voted for Obama for the 2nd time, after knowing his history of scandals, lies, and bully tactics, should not have a right to whine and complain about him. I never stated anything about not counting votes. So, stop making BS statements. Yes, most of the American People, WANT TO DELAY, NOT REPEAL Obamacare. So, how would delaying the healthcare system harm anyone?

Obama’s speech today just shows how much BS he speaks. He stated, “That none of what the Republicans said would happen have. There is no death panel.” He also, stated, “Healthcare costs have risen at the slowest rate in history.” What is wrong what he stated? How can anything the Republicans stated, happen? It has not been implemented yet. I do recall Obama stating, “Healthcare cost will drop in cost.” Oh, let’s not forget you can keep your current insurance. Yes, another lie Debbie. So, keep drinking the Obama Kool-Aid.

Oh so you understand it is not just Obama destroying this country, it is all sides. They are self-serving and corporations are controlling them.

C. M. Barons
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I don't recall anyone saying that the ACA would cause a drop in "Healthcare cost." The drop was to be in health insurance premium costs.

http://money.cnn.com/2013/07/17/news/economy/obamacare-health-insurance-...

http://www.in.gov/aca/files/ACAImpactonPremiumRates_v_June_2011.pdf

John Woodworth JR
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BTW Debbie, you need to watch the Jimmy Kimmel Show from last night. He had a individual go out and ask people off the street about what they prefer more, Obamacare vs Affordable Care Act. Everyone was clueless that, they are the same program and they bashed Obamacare then praised the Affordable Care Act. This just shows how out of touch and clueless some Americans are about Obamacare.

John Woodworth JR
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Ray it is more than just Congress, it is all of them. None care about the common American.

tom hunt
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Obamacare or the ACA is the law of the Land. This boils down to a pissing contest between the GOP in Congress and theh President of the US. If the people of this great Contry want to delay the start of this Law, all they have to do is nothing and acept the 98 dollar fine the IRS will impose upon them the first year. I bet they spend that amount on alcohol a month. Give it year to shake out the bugs and then sign up. No this is the premier legislation of the Obama Presidency and he is not going to give this hallmark up. He realizes that this is his mark in History; this is what he will be known for 20 years from now.

John Woodworth JR
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Tom, you are aware that, the fine goes up after the first failure to comply? The people have asked for a delay hench why Congress is holding out. 2-1 against Obamacare right now. BTW, Obamacare will only help out a selected few.

Tom this is not something to run without a through review they rushed this law and the public is catching up to the flaws. Look at the Cuomo Gun Law and how it was rushed and now the same law makers are back pedaling. Yes, leave the IRS in charge of it. They are not corrupt (sarcasm).

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