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May 8, 2014 - 7:58am

Today's Poll: Should U.S. assist in case of kidnapped Nigerian girls?

posted by Howard B. Owens in polls.
tom hunt
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Send in Seal Team 6.......no questions ask or prisoners taken.

Chris Vallett
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yes if they ask us.

Jack Dorf
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Help doesn't mean sending in troops. I'm amazed at the amount of no votes. Sad...

John Stone
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The basic underlying problem here is Islam... Until Americans figure this out, this kind of thing will continue unchecked...
and it will begin happening here within the decade...

John Roach
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Helping is one thing, but their own government has not really done anything about this. No troops and their military has to be active first.

Bob Harker
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Muslim leaders have not even spoken about this incident.

Earlier this year 60 Nigerian boys kidnapped and slaughtered. No reaction from the US.

4 Americans dead in Benghazi. No arrests. Nothing but denials from the administration.

8 thousand children killed or injured in Syria due to their own government's use of chemical weapons (the red line). Again, nada.

Yes of course we should get involved, rescue these girls, and annihilate the scumbags responsible. But I question why all we hear from the left is "we cannot be the world's police".

Until now. Where is the dividing line?

John Woodworth JR
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Agree John Stone but, you won't get any of these left wingers to agree. Remember Hillary Clinton did not classify this group as a terrorist group even after multiple attacks children schools. Once again we turn a blind-eye to a real threat to avoid being accused of hatred and hurting someone’s feelings.

The US should help by using our technology to assist the Nigerian Government with eyes from above. As far as boots on the ground, NO WAY! We just need to use
surveillance equipment to locate and lead the Nigerian Military to them.

Debbie Pugliese
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1) http://beegeagle.wordpress.com/2012/05/23/nigeria-opposed-u-s-plan-to-li...

2) Possible explanations for reluctance to label the group can be found in a 2012 letter to then Secretary of State Hillary Clinton from Nigeria experts, including John Campbell, the U.S. ambassador to Nigeria under President George Bush.

The letter claims that the foreign terrorist organization (FTO) designation would limit the State Department’s ability to shape “long-term” strategy and encourage the Nigerian government to use military action rather than diplomacy.

“We believe that an FTO designation for Boko Haram would limit American policy options to those least likely to work, and would undermine the domestic political conditions necessary in Nigeria for an enduring solution,” said the group in the letter.

http://thelead.blogs.cnn.com/2013/07/12/why-hasnt-the-obama-administrati...

But I am sure you know better than the former BUSH ambassador to Nigeria right Mr. Woodworth?

John Stone
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The policy that needs to be used is the only one that works with these people: extermination
Islam is completely incompatible with our system of law, and any Moslems who immigrate to the USA need to publicly renounce Islam.

...and don't talk to me about "tolerance"...
60 Minutes, the Sunday TV show, ran an episode where the issue of child sex-slavery was shown. When the interviewer, Mike Wallace or someone, questioned a Saudi prince who had just purchased a young girl as a sex-slave. The 'man' responded with: "This is basic Islam, there is nothing wrong with it."
This episode has been scrubbed completely, and will not be re-aired as it should be... Why is this?

Debbie Pugliese
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I seem to recall another man who thought the same as you Mr. Stone, only the religion was a different one.....

Emma Morrill
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Thank you, Debbie. I was thinking the same thing. Truth be told, I'm rather surprised (and a bit disgusted) that more people aren't taking Mr. Stone to task here, for the bigotry that he's demonstrated on this thread.

Scott Ogle
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"The policy that needs to be used is the only one that works with these people: extermination."

Spoken like a true American, John, We could start off with a few good olde-timey cross-burnings, just to get in the mood. .

"...and don't talk to me about "tolerance"..."

I promise I'd never make the mistake of tolerance with you.

Debbie Pugliese
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Emma, I think most people have come to just ignore his hateful rants....but I admit it made me so mad my willpower to ignore failed me.

Interesting reactions from Muslims on the kidnappings..
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-EGYPT: Religious Endowments Minister Mohammed Mohktar Gomaa said "the actions by Boko Haram are pure terrorism, with no relation to Islam, especially the kidnapping of the girls."

Sheik Ahmed el-Tayeb of the Cairo-based Al-Azhar, one of Sunni Islam's most prestigious institutions, said the abductions "completely contradict Islam and its principles of tolerance."

— PAKISTAN: Dawn, an English language newspaper, published an opinion piece that takes Nigeria to task for not moving against Boko Haram. "The popular upsurge in Nigeria in the wake of the latest unspeakable atrocity provides some scope for hoping that the state will finally act decisively to obliterate the growing menace," wrote columnist Mahir Ali.

— INDONESIA: In the world's most populous Muslim-majority country, the Jakarta Post published an editorial Wednesday condemning the Boko Haram leader for "wrongly" citing Islamic teaching as his excuse for selling the abducted girls into slavery. Recalling the Taliban's shooting of 15-year-old Pakistani girl Malala Yousafzai in 2012 because of her outspokenness in defense of girls' right to an education, the editorial said: "Malala's message needs to be conveyed to all people who use their power to block children's access to education. It is saddening that religion is misused to terrorize people and to kill the future leaders of the world."
-------

Some people should pick up a dictionary and look up the word Extremist.

Bob Harker
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Would that be Bill Clinton, Debbie?

Jeff Allen
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"We could start off with a few good olde-timey cross-burnings" Why would you want to bring up deeply held Democratic party history like that?

Jeff Allen
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I thought she was referring to Margaret Sanger but she did say man.

John Stone
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The assumption that it is bigotry is truly appalling... well, almost as appalling as people who are willing to make judgments based upon their ignorance of the facts.
Do you know what they believe?
Do you know what their 'god' and 'prophet' have told them?
Ever read the Qu'ran? The Surrah? Hadiths? - I KNOW for a FACT that you haven't (or have done so without comprehension) for the simple reason that you accuse me of bigotry! READ what they believe, and THEN rejoin the discussion from a position of knowledge as opposed to having nothing but the media's bobble-head talking points.

Are you a Muslim? No? Are you aware that they will one day demand that you become a Moslem, or choose to either die or live as a second-class citizen? Most likely you have fallen for the load of crap that says that Islam is a "religion of peace". Are you aware that it really is NOT a religion? It is the Constitution of the nation of Islam. Religion is only about 12-15% of it. The rest is law, practices, and punishments. They exist to "kill the Jews on Saturday, and kill the Christians on Sunday".
Sure there are plenty of them who are just cultural Muslims, and only want to be left alone to live in peace... BUT through reading their holey books, you will understand that when their final Mahdi arrives on-scene, even these 'moderate' Muslims will be REQUIRED, UNDER PENALTY OF DEATH, to pick up their weapons and kill non-Muslim men, steal the children and women for slavery and raping.
So... either read their 'scriptures' and know the enemy you face, or remove yourselves (those who wrongly assume I am a bigot, that is) from the discussion, please.

Emma Morrill
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I'd say that calling for genocide is pretty clear evidence of bigotry. So, yeah. . . I stand by my remarks.

John Stone
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I am going to assume that you are referring to the student of the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem? Adolph Hitler learned how to control and exterminate the Jews from, arguably, the most highly respected Muslim of the day... The yellow star of David... The tattooed numbers... all of that is directly out of the Islamic 'scriptures'. Surprise!
What, this little bit of history didn't make it into your books? (Once you understand the problem, and see the facts, you will really wonder why this fact didn't make it into schoolbooks... The USA was courting the Saudis regarding oil at the time, for what it's worth.)

Not sure if you are Christian or not. The Bible makes it abundantly clear who and what the enemy of ALL humans is. We either believe it or consider it all to be foolishness. Declare your stance, please. Our constitution and Islam are as compatible as oil and water. Ours seeks to create equality and peace. Theirs seeks to dominate by force. One authored by followers of Jehovah God, the other authored by the followers of "The most proud one" or "The Greatest Deceiver" (Direct titles of their allah, right from their books!) Do you know what "Allahu Ackbar" actually means? It means that their 'god', Allah is GREATER than all others...

(Really tired of ignorance)

Emma Morrill
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John Stone wrote the following: "The policy that needs to be used is the only one that works with these people: extermination. Islam is completely incompatible with our system of law, and any Moslems [sic] who immigrate to the USA need to publicly renounce Islam."

----------------

Yeah. I'm really tired of ignorance, as well.

John Stone
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(Oh... please, everyone... Understand that teaching, correction, and a bit of chastisement is NOT personal assaults. "Ignorance" is NOT an insult, it's a state of understanding, and what makes it non insulting is that it is FIXABLE by most who fall under it's shadow... If the ignorant are presented with the relevant facts and subsequently choose to ignore them, well, then we might have to see about slipping folk into a different category...)

John Stone
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Why [sic] after a correctly spelled proper name, Emma?
(Grabbing that last line of yers, I guess..?)

As to the solution mentioned above, it is certainly not the ideal, as conversion to Christianity is best, but once you understand the dynamics they live with growing up, you will see why that is so difficult.

But, as to it, that solution is not mine, as I am only passing on what was written in the Bible... Yeah, it's harsh, but God knows what the stakes are, and that is why He is going to handle it that way... Him, not me...

John Stone
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oops

Howard B. Owens
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I think the Founders of this nation would be aghast at the idea of exterminating anybody over their religious beliefs, even if they shared the view that the religion was noxious. Killing people for what they believe, killing people for the color of their skin, killing people because of their cultural heritage ... abhorant, uncivilized, anti-American, horrific. Jesus himself could have brought to a swift halt the evil Roman Empire, but he chose death for himself and redemption for all rather than sanction or bring about slaughter.

John Stone
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GOOD GOD PEOPLE... Do you not understand that it is NOT a religion?!?

Do yourselves a favor, (and those of us who already have) and READ THEIR BOOKS!!!!!
Get it from THEM!

John Stone
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look up the lyrics for the Marine Corps Anthem... Thee shores of Tripoli? Yeah... Muslims. Read what Thomas Jefferson actually had to say (all by himself) regarding Moslems and Islam... Guess what He read the damned book!!!! He KNEW EXACTLY what they were/are!

Scott Ogle
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"The policy that needs to be used is the only one that works with these people: extermination"

The man needs help, Howard, at least in finding the door. I'd be ashamed to let this sort of flatulence remain, challenged or not, in a publication of mine. But it's your lemonade stand, and it's rightfully your call.

Emma Morrill
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John, you're right that Moslem seems to be a lesser used spelling variant of Muslim, so I take back the "[sic]." I tried to remove it, but I couldn't edit.

I still stand by my remarks, however.

John Stone
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It's a good thing that we still have a First Amendment in force... Well, until you get it your way, Scott... Only difference in the ideas is that I won't lie and misrepresent myself as some will... Also... Let it be known that you are actually telling God that He is doing it wrong... Or is that another unread book?

John Stone
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It is a governmental system that uses religious fervor to aid in the enforcement of their ways. It's not a religion.
Any female who thinks there is anything good about Islam really needs to learn the truth.

alvin tufts
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So this is why the girls are not rescued yet. Everyone that could help, is too busy arguing about the "right" religion.

John Stone
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I also stand by my assertion that you can only keep your stance through ignorance.
Maybe "extermination" was too harsh a word to use. However, you would be wise to understand that extermination of all that is not Islamic really IS their goal for you...

Scott Ogle
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"It's a good thing that we still have a First Amendment in force... Well, until you get it your way, Scott."

It's a shame, John, that you don't understand the First Amendment protects you from the government, but not from a discerning publisher. Not to be unkind, but this seems to be the least of things that are confounding you. I'll keep a good thought, and hope that you simply get carried away, and become verbally overexcited.

John Stone
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No Alvin... They aren't rescued yet because there is not much interest in going against basic Islam within the corridors of power in Washington DC.

(Oh, By the way, Islam is a government system, and NOT a religion...)

John Stone
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Confounded does actually apply... My amazement stems from the fact that folks will actively and vigorously defend NOT having a grasp on the facts... My kids sometimes do this... they get all frustrated with something they just bought . They could completely clarify the issue by reading the appropriate literature, but as it says something other than what their preconceived notion is, they will act like it is ME who doesn't have the facts, even though I show them in black-n-white...! Humans amaze me with this trait. (Discourages me, but amazes too)
I understand that the First is a protection against government and not particularly relating to a private business. If you want to go all technical and act as the lawyers do, I'll refer you to law in a way that will make your head swim, and, hopefully, help you to realize just how big and unwieldy the parasites... er... lawyers have made it.
You see there is a way that a person can always be sure they are coming from a position of strength, and that is to know all of the relevant facts of an issue, or to know where to get them. As soon as one of the sides has exhausted their resources or exceeded their intellectual capability, personal attacks ensue... Please don't be that guy...
However, in a formerly free nation, we understand that this freedom of speech should extend to the other areas of our lives, and not just regarding government powers. Even tho this is a private website, it presents an open forum. The owners can decide to remove my posts. Maybe they will. However, I think that Howard understands that people are going to disagree with each other, and this is the basis of debate. Well, is as long as free speech isn't quelled because we find ourselves offended by something someone says....

John Stone
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I do get verbally excited... It's like a compulsion to shine the light in the darkness and eliminate ignorance wherever I find it... The extent of my "excitement" comes from the incredible prevalence of ignorance, and the frustration it causes because it is not even necessary in our world, yet so many CHOOSE to remain there. It's like they refuse to think for themselves, or maybe they just cannot do it. Then, the media's talking points become "fact". Yeah... That is incredibly frustrating!

Scott Ogle
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" Well, is as long as free speech isn't quelled because we find ourselves offended by something someone says...."

I'm all for free speech, John. But your remarks go beyond offending. Calling for the extermination of another people is hate speech -- pure and simple. I happen to think that's not really what's on your heart, but I may be naive; I can't know, because though you say your use of the term 'exterminate' may have been 'too harsh', you've not deleted your odious remarks. I'm not even going to go into your misconceptions of Islam; I'm not Job, and I don't have the time.

Kyle Couchman
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John I have to correct you. Islam is a religion. Not a form of Government....

What you are calling Islam is in fact an Islamic Republic. Its seems confusing but the same thing happens here as well. Many people call the US a democracy when in fact we are a Democratic Republic.

Here's an explanation of the distinction between Islam and an Islamic Republic...

Islamic republic is the name given to several states in countries ruled by Islamic laws, including the Islamic Republics of Pakistan, Iran, Afghanistan, and Mauritania. Pakistan first adopted the title under the constitution of 1956. Mauritania adopted it on 28 November 1958. Iran adopted it after the 1979 Iranian Revolution that overthrew the Pahlavi dynasty. Afghanistan adopted it after the 2001 overthrow of the Taliban. Despite the similar name the countries differ greatly in their governments and laws.

The term Islamic republic has come to mean several different things, some contradictory to others. To some Muslim religious leaders in the Middle East and Africa who advocate it, an Islamic Republic is a state under a particular Islamic form of government. They see it as a compromise between a purely Islamic Caliphate, and secular nationalism and republicanism. In their conception of the Islamic republic, the penal code of the state is required to be compatible with some or all laws of Sharia, and the state may not be a monarchy as many Middle Eastern states are presently.

In the cases of Pakistan and Mauritania, it is merely a symbol of Muslim cultural identity. In fact, many argue that an Islamic Republic strikes a middle path between a completely secular and a theocratic (and/or Orthodox Islamic) system of government.

As for the rest of what our US Govt does in dealing with Islamic Govt's this explanation shows that it's difficult at best to deal with politically as the difference between Islamic Govt is riddled with disagreements of it's own over policies with each other.

Kyle Couchman
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Also John you need to correct your own ignorance as well. Extremist Islamic / Muslims are the ones that want nothing but the extermination of all non-islamic people, not regular Islamics or Muslims . To think otherwise is a gross generalization.

It would be like saying that Westboro Baptist Church are an example of what all Christians are all about. Extremism is ugly no matter what flag it represents or religious belief it springs from.

Howard B. Owens
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I get accused all the time of deleting opinions I disagree with. I've never deleted a comment for that reason and never will. I find John's statements espousing mass murder odious, but I also take them in context of political talk. We delete comments and ban people for their behavior not the content of their opinions.

I would be well within my rights to delete the comments, but it would also be out of step with our policies to not inhibit speech.

And John, there's nothing you could teach me about Islam that I don't already know. I've been well down the road of neoconservativism. I once wrote an essay called "we didn't start the war" (no longer online) about how the West often gets blamed for the Crusades, but the first Crusade was actually a counter attack against the Muslims (later Crusades were nothing but bloody, murderous adventures). I'm well studied on this issue. I studied up quite a bit on the subject in 2002-2004. My political views were not far apart from yours. I've moderated my views quite a bit in the intervening years. I'm done with foreign wars and wars of speculation.

I also don't support killing people for their beliefs, either individually or in mass, whether you want to call them religious beliefs or not doesn't matter, they're still beliefs. I'll never endorse that line of thinking.

John Woodworth JR
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Well Debbie, apparently so, since, hmmm well, they are worst now and nothing has improved. So, yes apparently Pres. Bush and Nigerian Government were incorrect in their assumptions and the way they approached this matter. When Sec. Kerry announced Boko Haram as a terrorist in November did it undermined the Nigerian Government? No! Why not? We will never know I guess.

John Woodworth JR
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It amazes me Debbie that during 9-11-2001, that all the Muslim World applauded the acts of terrorism on NY, PA, and DC as acts of heroic/martyrdom, until the USA flexed her might and they changed their tune to denounce the acts as "TERRORISM!"

Kyle Couchman
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Thats really an unfair generalization John. all the muslim world did not applaud or support the attacks. The media had a field day with showing us those that did so if you go by what is fed to you then you might come to that conclusion. I heard differently from my shipmates and military friends around the world in areas we were stationed after Desert Storm that many many of your average muslims were doubly sad. Sad for us and our losses and tragedy, but also sad of what would come from us as a response and what it would mean to the millions of NON EXTREMIST muslims in the world.

That is the reality behind the media spin and political games played after that tragedy.

John Stone
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I'm talking the elimination of an ideology that IS the "sword", NOT the people themselves... Did none of you catch the part about converting them being the best option? I see that many want to focus ONLY on that which they are offended by, and instead of refuting from a position of knowledge, they just want to point fingers and tell me I am "bad".
Kyle has some eloquent writing... It's just a shame that it is nothing more than a well-heeled parroting of the current politically-correct talking-points. Don't let the fact that it's fantasy get in the way of voicing your opinions, as reality just won't fit within the framework you have been told to put it in, so we will do the "Liberal" thing, and instead of facts from the source, the dissent is mob-rules
The whole concept of "moderate vs. 'radical' Islam is a fallacy. It truly exists ONLY in the minds of those who really DO NOT understand it...
A decade or two from now, those who survive will remember that "crazy S.O.B. back in '14 who tried to tell us..."

The empty idea of the "non-extremist" Moslem is incredibly naive... Voicing of it does nothing other than prove that you don't know what you are talking about. Of course in EVERY group of people (religious and not) you have those who are extreme, and those who aren't. Islam is DESIGNED to bring the extreme people to the top, and then these leaders have the process which turns peaceful people into monsters. Doubt this? Read some history about it, and your doubt will disappear!

I don't quote the Qu'ran. I should, but find that even when I do, people argue that I am "wrong". (Even direct quotes get me told that I am the problem.
I must voice my appreciation, though, as I am "learning" so much about Islam here! I would never have learned the difference between a moderate and a radical, as it had been presented to you, unfortunately, as fact...

Islam is a governing ideology that has a religious component. It is NOT a religion! I also am ending it here as I shake my head... You people are STILL trying to convince me that I don't know what their books say, when in fact it is you who don't know what is written there! (And this is exactly why America WILL fall to them. They lie to our face, and most of you believe it.)
Read the Qu'ran, Surrah, Hadiths, Mishkaat, etc. Until you have actually done so, keep your uninformed opinions (for that's all they are) to yourself. That is, unless you are actually OK with propagating the Islamic Lie... if you do have an interest in doing this, you are, in reality, an enemy of America. So, either learn, silence your ignorance, or declare your intent honestly...

John Stone
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https://scontent-a-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1.0-9/1544571_43390719...

Just wanted to share the "happy day" of all these Islamic brides!

Oh... Wait, ABC and CNN tell you that this doesn't happen, so Mr. Stone must have just drawn the picture or something...
(Be aware that one or more of these youngsters might be those from Boko Haran's recent 'recruitment' effort. we cannot say, as this is how they treat most females.) It's different here in the US, for now. Look to one of their nations to see how they REALLY want to treat you!)
Oops... I forgot to include the pictures description... Here it is:

"Muslim girls being lead off in chains to meet their new husbands. The leading experts in Islamic Law met recently at the 191st meeting of the Council of Islamic Ideology and declared as un-Islamic any laws attempting to establish a minimum age for girls to be married."

John Stone
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Here... I will share the love Moslems have for y'all: Please feel free to peruse this site. (unless the truth frightens you, which seems very likely, after what I have read here)
www.shoebat.com (-an ex-terrorist)

John Stone
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You say this only because you don't know any better, Kyle.

"There is none so foolish as he who is unaware of his ignorance."

You keep saying "Non-extremist". Once you understand the dynamics of their ideology, you will see that these are, at best, those who aren't extremists... YET...
But, you cannot fathom this until you understand the way Islam works... Again, do yourself, and especially your women-folk, a favor, and learn facts vs propaganda...

(I can wait for the apologies, just so long as y'all learn the truth...!)

John Stone
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You don't have to endorse this line of thinking... To be perfectly honest, neither do I... Please do not expect this courtesy from the other team, though...
Your responses to me haven't been vitriolic, so you must have at least some understanding of Islam.

I would like people to understand one thing... There are tens (hundreds?) of millions of Muslims who would actually BE "moderate" or "peaceful". The point that always gets lost is the fact that every one of these 'peaceful' Muslims will be REQUIRED, under penalty of death, to follow the orders of the Mah'di when he makes his appearance.
Were y'all aware that the number of what you call "extremist" on the earth is roughly equivalent to the population of the entire USA? Roughly 300 million of them who will gladly smile as they slit your child's throat in front of you and make you watch your wife and daughters getting raped... The other 700 million won't do this... until the knife is at their own throat. Then they will smile as they do it as well...

John Stone
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(As usual... as soon as facts and specifics start flying, the only ones we hear from are the crickets...)

Kyle Couchman
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Joined: Dec 25 2009 - 8:54am

Where are these so called facts coming from John. Shoebat impresses me as about as legitimate as Earnest Angely or Westboro Baptists are. I can go on and say these things as well but what makes this Shoebat more credible. He has his hand out for donations just like any other con - man. And his "conversion" seems to convenient to be legitimate.

Islam is a religion. Period your opinion to the contrary are not correct and shows it's own ignorance.

Islam (/ˈɪslɑːm/;[note 1] Arabic: الإسلام‎, al-ʾIslām IPA: [ælʔɪsˈlæːm] ( listen)[note 2]) is a monotheistic and Abrahamic religion articulated by the Qur'an, a book considered by its adherents to be the verbatim word of God[1] (Arabic: الله‎ Allāh) and by the teachings and normative example (called the Sunnah and composed of hadith) of Muhammad (c. 570 CE – c. 8 June 632 CE), considered by them to be the last prophet of God. An adherent of Islam is called a Muslim.

Muslims believe that God is one and incomparable [2] and the purpose of existence is to worship God.[3] Muslims also believe that Islam is the complete and universal version of a primordial faith that was revealed before many times throughout the world, including notably through Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus, whom they consider prophets.[4] They maintain that the previous messages and revelations have been partially misinterpreted or altered over time,[5] but consider the Arabic Qur'an to be both the unaltered and the final revelation of God.[6] Religious concepts and practices include the five pillars of Islam, which are basic concepts and obligatory acts of worship, and following Islamic law, which touches on virtually every aspect of life and society, providing guidance on multifarious topics from banking and welfare, to warfare and the environment.[7][8]

Most Muslims are of two denominations: Sunni (75–90%) [9] or Shia (10–20%).[10] About 13% of Muslims live in Indonesia,[11] the largest Muslim-majority country, 25% in South Asia,[11] 20% in the Middle East,[12] and 15% in Sub-saharan Africa.[13] Sizable minorities are also found in Europe, China, Russia, and the Americas. Converts and immigrant communities are found in almost every part of the world (see Islam by country). With about 1.6 billion followers or 23% of earth's population,[14][15] Islam is the second-largest religion and the fastest-growing major religion in the world.[16][17][18][19]

That is the definition of Islam. Truth is truth and your conjecture and opinions are not truth at all. Nor more than the con-men on TV telling christians to plant their monetary seeds with this or that ministry will cause God to send them a financial harvest.

Preach all you want John, no one will buy what you are selling as far as this goes because very few people on here are as ignorant as you need them to be to think your opinions are fact.

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