And those who will claim "tradition" have no real sense of history. We no longer allow slavery, women can vote, and everybody can ride in the front of the bus. Our history shows that when things are wrong, we (eventually) correct them - no matter what the "tradition"...
FWIW - it is a different situation when indian tribes grant permission for the use of their names (Florida Seminoles).
It's only a derogatory term because we made it one. Take the time to look up its origin. There are many groups of Indians who think there is nothing wrong with the name.
To answer your question, Tim, Redskins is different because it can be traced back to its origin, where it wasn't an offensive term. The same can't be said for your extremely offensive examples, with the exception of chink, which is a narrow opening or crack. Kind of exemplifies societies way of thinking....
Can we stop with the politically correct Bull Crap. The NFL is a private entity and not owned by the government. If Daniel Snyder wants to keep his team's name which he owns. Then let him keep it. It is his right
Political correctness is actually one of the biggest threats to America, but too many refuse to see it. (Plus, the Muslim Brotherhood, which is NOT a "good" organization by ANY stretch of the imagination, is COUNTING on it to continue!)
The term "Islamophobia" was actually coined by the M.B. It is along the same lines of crying "racist"... Both terms are designed to END dialog, in order to allow seditious activities to continue unabated.
Americans REALLY need to wake up!
There's NOTHING wrong with that teams name. Why is is only becoming an issue now? After haw many decades of complete acceptance? It really is time to lock-n-load... Patriots... Keep yer powder dry, as you will need it soon!
As a Native American I can tell you that it has been an issue far longer than "only now" John. The issue has been raised since the 1960s. This has nothing to do with "feel good" or "pc." Tim made the point that we have been raising for 53 years now so THANK YOU TIM. If you want to use the word warrior or chief, fine. But why do you have to have fake rain dances (which are sacred ceremonial practices, fake headdresses (which are a symbol of pride-each feather was a reward for doing something honorable for the tribe), fake peace pipes (which contrary to popular belief most of us have never seen and are not used recreationally), fake tomahawks, etc. The issue is that these teams cannot rest with the name. They have to continue by MOCKING an entire race. No one who is black would enjoy a team named the negros that have mascots with blackface or chains around their necks or mock whipping a black person in the middle of a field right?. No one who is christian would enjoy watching a bunch of people carry out burning crosses or burn bibles at halftime would they? You wouldn't call a team the jihads and burn the koran. That is the equivalent of this topic. You are mocking a race and RELIGION and discounting things that are VERY SACRED. (Remember the recent outcry about the burger that featured a communion wafer? Why isn't that called PC or "feel good" since people complained??) There is a line between a name and using trademarks and freedom of speech to openly mock and harass a culture that was here LONG before others.
Here's another way to think about it. If you burn a cross on someone's lawn it's a hate crime. Why isn't televising and publicizing the same behavior towards another race and religion any different?
Surprising they can find enough players willing to play on a team with such a derogatory name, isn't it? And their fans must be a bunch of haters, too.
simulating a rain dance (an act that is ceremonial) = simulating slavery (an act that tortured/murdered innocent human beings)?
wearing a headdress (a symbol of pride) = burning the bible (an offensive act)?
please explain your logic with these comparisons.
Simulating a rain dance, which, as you stated, is a ceremonial practice, would be the christian equivalent of gathering in the middle of the field and saying the hail mary....
"There are Native American schools that call their teams Redskins. The term is used affectionately by some natives, similar to the way the N-word is used by some African-Americans. In the only recent poll to ask native people about the subject, 90 percent of respondents did not consider the term offensive"
IMO, using the name Redskins is a compliment to the heritage and helps keep it alive.
Without, as Michelle put it, "fake rain dances", "fake headdresses", "fake peace pipes", "fake tomahawks", etc, recognizing and celebrating an entire race of people, in the not too distant future that people is going to be known only as those who own some casinos and sell cheap cigarettes and gasoline. Probably already are in some disconnected from the world low information circles.
If you're offended by it it is only because you choose to be.
LMAO, you are too much. I have numerous Native American friends and not one of them has ever spoke about how offended they were about the Washington Football team using Redskins. I bet if, you took a national poll among Native Americans the majority would tell the select few to stop their belly aching.
So, explained to me how the name Washington Redskins is offensive? Like some others your other examples are extremely offensive and meant to be offensive by bigots.
If, I was able to change the name of the Washington Redskins it would be the Washington DC Posers.
I agree that the PC world is getting out of hand....if you think about some names of pro sports teams, just about everyone could be offended. new York giants=obese people offended....new jersey devils = Christians offended....new England patriots=veterans offended...new Orleans saints=athesists offended.....Carolina hurricanes=weatherperson offended.....new York Yankees=people from the north offended........you could even be offended by people who are offended by non sense
That is funny David. Good one. People take things out of control because, we have a sue happy society and scumbag lawyers who use these issues to make a name for themself along with some easy cash. BEFORE anyone gets upset, Not all lawyers are scumbags but, the ambulance chasing type are in my opinion. Look at the lawyers in office serving as our representatives. They know how to screw everyone but, themselves.
Because, Mr Tim (PC) Miller it is not a derogatory term. It refers not to a person's culture, race, or creed - just simply a reference to a paint that certain tribes displayed during war. Simply put, it refers to a group of people.
I assume you also favor the changing of such existing team names as "Bullets", "Predators", "Warriors", "Angels", " Indians", "Braves", "Padres", "Senators" (OK, I'm good with removing that one) "Vikings", "Saints", "Patriots" or ANY team name that refers to a group of people.
BTW, Rasmussin and Gallup have both recently conducted polls showing that less than 8% of Native Americans objected to the name.
BTW Tim, I smoke Senecas which I purchase at "The Rez". I guess I shouldn't do that anymore.
As far as these polls you reference, most of them are padded numbers. The Oneida nation is taking on the issue as have many other tribes. Again it is not the name in schools with Warriors, Chiefs, Braves, etc. It is how the culture is mocked. To answer some earlier questions:
I compared this to slavery and other examples because Native Americans were raped, slaughtered, tortured and sent to boarding schools where native children were beaten and denied meals for speaking their own language. They were forced to adopt "Christian" names. Both of my grandparents were victims of these (my grandfather was in Carlisle. For an added bonus Richard Henry Pratt who ran Carlisle once said "Kill the Indian, and Save the Man”: (Capt. Richard H. Pratt on the Education of Native Americans) http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/4929/
And as a final comment...I'd love to extend a (sarcastic) thanks to Bob for emphasizing exactly why we feel offended by certain things:
"recognizing and celebrating an entire race of people, in the not too distant future that people is going to be known only as those who own some casinos and sell cheap cigarettes and gasoline. Probably already are in some disconnected from the world low information circles.
If you're offended by it it is only because you choose to be."
Most Native Americans do not own these establishments, some tribes do not see payouts and the fact that you can so freely use such a stereotype to encompass an entire race highlights the ignorance that makes us upset on topics such as this. Most of my friends and relatives are offended by the way teams have decided to make fun of things that are sacred to us. The name is the least of the problem but because of the way the mascots have been associated with the name, it's time for a change. Supporting teams who mock anything cultural, racial and religious is wrong. We are ALL protected under the Freedoms of this country like it or not. That includes race, religion, national origin, etc. You do not get to pick and choose when that applies or who it applies to. If an Amendment is violated, it is violated. (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/freedom+from+discrimination) Would you be alright with someone walking out in a priest's robe and cheerleaders in skimpy nun outfits doing the Miley Cyrus VMA performance? Probably not so much. The problem in our society is that if someone is harassed/bullied/belittled the answer is "grow a thicker skin," These moments could be used as teaching moments of tolerance and acceptance. This has been an issue for OVER 50 YEARS so it is not exactly breaking news.
Read the comments from the Oneida tribe. The owner of the team makes great points about players and coaches who were native. I've always known that. It does not mean those players represent the collective sentiment of all indigenous people. I think opening the door for dialogue between native leaders and the owner of the team is a great example of my comment earlier about using these moments to teach tolerance
The Washington Post and USA Today said they will refer to the 'Redskins' as the 'R' word in their stories.How about they all kiss my R-word A-word and go F-word themselves.
I'm "denigrated" by having to say that I live in a country that is being defeated from within without firing a shot!
I'm "denigrated" by We the People folding like a wet R-word towel to a pack of morons running our government and accomplishing what the Germans and the Japanese couldn't accomplish in 4 years, and the F-word commie SOB's couldn't accomplish in 40 years of Cold War!
I'm "denigrated" by having to watch the F-word "leader" of the F-word "free" world not doing S-word to fix ANYTHING, but having plenty of F-word time to F-word play F-word golf and tell us what the H-word we should name a F-word football team!!
Stinky and the rest of you F-word liberals, and RINO conservatives can kiss my A-word. I have F-word about F-word run out of F-word patience.
Please Michelle, I have a lot of friends from the Seneca Nation. Apparently my Great Grandmother is Iroquois. Viewing Redskins as offensive is as ridiculous as me getting upset being refer to as Whitey. Like has been stated, people make it offensive because they have nothing better to do than whine. To me it is just an excuse to try and establish a lawsuit in an attempt to make some easy cash.
"Most of my friends and relatives are offended by the way teams have decided to make fun of things that are sacred to us."
You have chosen to view as a joke. Why? I can only assume that, you feel it is not a official, chant or dance? People at Atlanta Brave games are doing the tomhawk to poke fun it is their way to show team spirit.
I wanted to throw my view into this as well. During my time in the service I lived in New London Ct. They used to have a regular native american arts and crafts festival that was more a celebration of native art and culture than it was a craft fair.
I have always felt that we the US really as an entity owe a great debt to the native peoples. Considering that our crimes against them are as great if not greater than what Hitler's nazi's did to the jewish and gypsy cultures in europe,
But if you read anything written on the subject of native american peoples written between the 1600's and 1830's you will find that the native american peoples called themselves redskins or redmen. And ourselves the whiteskins, or crossed people, (reference to the fact that almost all north american colonists were christian and for the most part devoutly so),
Michelle you and your friends may be insulted by the use of redskins for a sports team. Well how ridiculous would it be for me and some others here to take the same stance against crackers? It being a slur for the white race I find it disrespectful for people to serve them heaped with junk on them . Call them wafers or such instead of a derogatory racial slur that was given to the white overseers of slaves in the south for their use of bullwhips to discipline slaves......
Get the point yet? There is more important issues to be concerned about than the name of a sports team,
Personally... If I were the owner the team, I'd make fun of all this insulting of natives americans by rebranding the team theme. Replacing any reference to native american culture to reference to apples instead. Leaving the name exactly the same.
which would be a big FU to all these supposed activists with a request to them to go make their drama elsewhere.
This situation does not warrant the label, PC (politically correct). The term, PC, derives from academia; higher education self-imposing voluntary standards on the content of papers written by academics. It was subsequently inserted into the public eye by politicians who decided to politicize the movement.
The argument over athletic team names that reference Native Americans as to whether those names are racist or offensive arise from the offended parties, namely, Native Americans.
Blacks co-opted an offensive and derogatory word used by non-blacks in an effort to deflate the power of that word (just as they co-opted shaved heads to dis-empower skinheads).
I highly doubt that any professional sports club ever chose the so-called 'n-word' as their team name.
The tactic of one minority does nothing to attenuate the sting of slurs aimed at another minority. Blacks took ownership of an offensive word; the same tactic has not been initiated by Native Americans.
Despite the possibility that Native Americans may have at one time self-described themselves as "redskins," the dynamics of the word changed when 19th Century whites began using it in their campaigns to decimate Native Americans who stood in the way of white Manifest Destiny.
The notion that offending any group of people is okay because a majority of other people see nothing wrong with offending them is no argument at all. What would be said of teams such as: Atlanta Albinos, Cleveland Crackers, Boston Blue-eyed Devils, Harrisburg Honkies, Detroit Ditchpigs, Philadelphia Fish-bellies, Georgetown Gomers, Miami Mayonnaise, Orlando Ofays, Pittsburgh Peckerwoods, Raleigh Rednecks or Charlotte Shit-kickers?
Thank you C.M. Your words sum this up best:
Just because we are a minority does not mean we should be ignored
Having "friends" (how close are they) does not mean they or I represent a collective voice for each tribe or Native American. No one does
If people are offended by something others should listen. Obviously I am not the only one since there are numerous tribal and human rights groups in washington this week to discuss why the name change means so much to US.
Also as CM pointed out blacks have adopted the n word but it is still hateful when directed towards them by someone who is not black and using that word against a balck person while committing a crime makes it a HATE crime. What a minority says to each other is through common understanding. Until attitudes like those posted here change words such as what have been mentioned above will remain offensive.
And no offense John but "apparently my great grandmother" does not help your case. We have joke about "my great grandmother was a cherokee princess.." That gives you 1/8 quantum and iroquois is not how you refer to your heritage. I am half native-my mother is full blood. Her mother was full blood Mohawk and her father (my grandparents) was full blood Blackfoot. Both were in government run boarding schools and tortured and abused so badly they feared registering their children so that history did not repeat itself. I speak from a lot more than an outsiders view
Michelle what it comes down to is that, you are making a bigot issues out of innocent names. You are making it a race issue and nothing more. Most bigots refer to Native Americans as "savage." Your opinion of the Florida Seminole fans, Atlanta Brave fans, etc...., doing some type of tomhawk chop is something these fans do for team spirit. You are making the assumption that, people are making fun of your traditions and heritage. Stop making a mountain out of a mole hill, seriously. It is attitudes like this that, make everyone walk on egg shells for no real reason. So you are full blood Mohawk, the last I knew, Nohawks did not have names like Michelle and Williams. You talk about heritage yet use the white man's name. Do you not find it offensive that, your cultural names are not used?
Michelle I truly hope you do not take me wrong. Like I stated, my heritage has some Native American. I have numerous Native American friends. I am pissed about how NYS Governor Cuomo has violated the Native Americans rights. I just do not see any valid reason why sport teams names need to be changed.
As CM puts it, teams could change their name to something like Atlanta Albinos (Animal without color) or Cleveland Crackers (A baked wheat snack). Yes, could I look at cracker as being used as a racial name but, I have tougher skin than that. So, as far as sport names changing, I say no. People need to grow thicker skin and stop being so soft and feeding the BS. I guess people need some wine with their cheese.
Michelle, no one saying that, you should be ignored but, to be realistic. Besides this country has already demostrated that, the minority is heard over the majority.
To answer your question and I stated this above- I am half native american. My father (who is white is where the last name williams came from) Sorry my name isn't hollywood enough for you. Also stated above my grandparents were in boarding schools and forced to take "white" names so even if I use their name it would still sound "white". The tomahawak chop is not offensive. The name braves is not offensive. You miss where the line. Names like braves chiefs and warriors are very fitting for sports teams. Issue is simply with the way peace pipes and headdresses are used. The war hoop is fine, the chants are fine. I wish it were easier to explain but it is not and unless you have felt discrimination or valued something and seen it disrespected then most cannot understand. Tim and CM made the points that are the problem. There should not have to be a discussion about what name is ok or not. Cracker vs the n word or redskin are quite different things. Some people. May never understand which is why we haveleaders in washington trying to explain it in a peaceful way
Hello it has nothing to do with Hollywood. I am merely stating that, you refer to your heritage and tradition when replying about sport teams who use terms such as Redskin, Braves, and Indians and find it offensive. However, you do not use tradition Native American names (Just so we are clear I do not mean like "Little Eagle" this example is a definition not a name) I am talking about like for Israel for example, Ian is a Israeli name which is the equivalent to the English name for John.
You are upset with sports names yet, do not fine the Village of Cheektowaga offensive or Tuscarora Road offensive. I could go on and on with these examples. Like I stated, the ONLY reason people like yourself find sport names like the Washington Redskins offensive is because, you want to make it racial.
Michelle, what you also fail to understand is that, Blacks, Native Americans are not only people who suffered discrimination. I have Scottish and Irish in me. History has shown that, both were enslaved by the English. History has shown that, the Irish were discriminated upon their arrival in America. A lot of other ethnic groups have been discriminated upon.
We all have some sort heritage discrimination at one point. I love how modern African Americans refer to themselves as an "Oppress People." They have never been oppressed in their lives. Yes, intercity schools have a lot of African American drop outs and one parent families. Yet, the only thing you hear done by people such as Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson is how the white man has oppress their people. How about they look at the root of the issue. Develop programs to stop teenage pregnancies or programs to keep our kids in school, etc... You hear racial explanations but, no resolutions. "Just placing blame and not resolving."
Look at Christmas that, is a tradition which has been changed numerous times.
I guess I can't grow "Redskin'd" potatoes anymore then!! I also thought all the ignorant people were located in my white house & in congress in Washington DC & Albany, NY. But, I must have overlooked the locals being like that too? It is just someone that wants to cause trouble again & is "MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING AT ALL AGAIN"!!
Would we find "Chicago
Would we find "Chicago Niggers" acceptable?
How about "San Francisco Chinks"?
"New York Kikes"?
Please explain how "Redskins" is any different.
And those who will claim "tradition" have no real sense of history. We no longer allow slavery, women can vote, and everybody can ride in the front of the bus. Our history shows that when things are wrong, we (eventually) correct them - no matter what the "tradition"...
FWIW - it is a different situation when indian tribes grant permission for the use of their names (Florida Seminoles).
It's only a derogatory term
It's only a derogatory term because we made it one. Take the time to look up its origin. There are many groups of Indians who think there is nothing wrong with the name.
To answer your question, Tim, Redskins is different because it can be traced back to its origin, where it wasn't an offensive term. The same can't be said for your extremely offensive examples, with the exception of chink, which is a narrow opening or crack. Kind of exemplifies societies way of thinking....
Can we stop with the
Can we stop with the politically correct Bull Crap. The NFL is a private entity and not owned by the government. If Daniel Snyder wants to keep his team's name which he owns. Then let him keep it. It is his right
We spend WAY TOO MUCH TIME on
We spend WAY TOO MUCH TIME on "Feel Good" issues.
We spend WAY TOO MUCH TIME worrying about what "May Or May Not Offend"
Comparing the name of a Football Team to Slavery, Rosa Parks or Women's Suffrage is just over the top if not down right ludicrous.
Political correctness is
Political correctness is actually one of the biggest threats to America, but too many refuse to see it. (Plus, the Muslim Brotherhood, which is NOT a "good" organization by ANY stretch of the imagination, is COUNTING on it to continue!)
The term "Islamophobia" was actually coined by the M.B. It is along the same lines of crying "racist"... Both terms are designed to END dialog, in order to allow seditious activities to continue unabated.
Americans REALLY need to wake up!
There's NOTHING wrong with that teams name. Why is is only becoming an issue now? After haw many decades of complete acceptance? It really is time to lock-n-load... Patriots... Keep yer powder dry, as you will need it soon!
I'm offended by those who are
I'm offended by those who are easily offended, what ya'll need to do is GFY instead of sticking your noses in other peoples business.
As a Native American I can
As a Native American I can tell you that it has been an issue far longer than "only now" John. The issue has been raised since the 1960s. This has nothing to do with "feel good" or "pc." Tim made the point that we have been raising for 53 years now so THANK YOU TIM. If you want to use the word warrior or chief, fine. But why do you have to have fake rain dances (which are sacred ceremonial practices, fake headdresses (which are a symbol of pride-each feather was a reward for doing something honorable for the tribe), fake peace pipes (which contrary to popular belief most of us have never seen and are not used recreationally), fake tomahawks, etc. The issue is that these teams cannot rest with the name. They have to continue by MOCKING an entire race. No one who is black would enjoy a team named the negros that have mascots with blackface or chains around their necks or mock whipping a black person in the middle of a field right?. No one who is christian would enjoy watching a bunch of people carry out burning crosses or burn bibles at halftime would they? You wouldn't call a team the jihads and burn the koran. That is the equivalent of this topic. You are mocking a race and RELIGION and discounting things that are VERY SACRED. (Remember the recent outcry about the burger that featured a communion wafer? Why isn't that called PC or "feel good" since people complained??) There is a line between a name and using trademarks and freedom of speech to openly mock and harass a culture that was here LONG before others.
Here's another way to think about it. If you burn a cross on someone's lawn it's a hate crime. Why isn't televising and publicizing the same behavior towards another race and religion any different?
Surprising they can find
Surprising they can find enough players willing to play on a team with such a derogatory name, isn't it? And their fans must be a bunch of haters, too.
simulating a rain dance (an
simulating a rain dance (an act that is ceremonial) = simulating slavery (an act that tortured/murdered innocent human beings)?
wearing a headdress (a symbol of pride) = burning the bible (an offensive act)?
please explain your logic with these comparisons.
Simulating a rain dance, which, as you stated, is a ceremonial practice, would be the christian equivalent of gathering in the middle of the field and saying the hail mary....
"There are Native American
"There are Native American schools that call their teams Redskins. The term is used affectionately by some natives, similar to the way the N-word is used by some African-Americans. In the only recent poll to ask native people about the subject, 90 percent of respondents did not consider the term offensive"
http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/10/08/how-many-native-americans-thi…
I guess it is purely a matter of perspective
IMO, using the name Redskins
IMO, using the name Redskins is a compliment to the heritage and helps keep it alive.
Without, as Michelle put it, "fake rain dances", "fake headdresses", "fake peace pipes", "fake tomahawks", etc, recognizing and celebrating an entire race of people, in the not too distant future that people is going to be known only as those who own some casinos and sell cheap cigarettes and gasoline. Probably already are in some disconnected from the world low information circles.
If you're offended by it it is only because you choose to be.
LMAO, you are too much. I
LMAO, you are too much. I have numerous Native American friends and not one of them has ever spoke about how offended they were about the Washington Football team using Redskins. I bet if, you took a national poll among Native Americans the majority would tell the select few to stop their belly aching.
So, explained to me how the name Washington Redskins is offensive? Like some others your other examples are extremely offensive and meant to be offensive by bigots.
If, I was able to change the name of the Washington Redskins it would be the Washington DC Posers.
I agree that the PC world is
I agree that the PC world is getting out of hand....if you think about some names of pro sports teams, just about everyone could be offended. new York giants=obese people offended....new jersey devils = Christians offended....new England patriots=veterans offended...new Orleans saints=athesists offended.....Carolina hurricanes=weatherperson offended.....new York Yankees=people from the north offended........you could even be offended by people who are offended by non sense
That is funny David. Good
That is funny David. Good one. People take things out of control because, we have a sue happy society and scumbag lawyers who use these issues to make a name for themself along with some easy cash. BEFORE anyone gets upset, Not all lawyers are scumbags but, the ambulance chasing type are in my opinion. Look at the lawyers in office serving as our representatives. They know how to screw everyone but, themselves.
Because, Mr Tim (PC) Miller
Because, Mr Tim (PC) Miller it is not a derogatory term. It refers not to a person's culture, race, or creed - just simply a reference to a paint that certain tribes displayed during war. Simply put, it refers to a group of people.
I assume you also favor the changing of such existing team names as "Bullets", "Predators", "Warriors", "Angels", " Indians", "Braves", "Padres", "Senators" (OK, I'm good with removing that one) "Vikings", "Saints", "Patriots" or ANY team name that refers to a group of people.
BTW, Rasmussin and Gallup have both recently conducted polls showing that less than 8% of Native Americans objected to the name.
BTW Tim, I smoke Senecas which I purchase at "The Rez". I guess I shouldn't do that anymore.
http://indiancountrytodaymedi
http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2013/10/08/redskins-opponents…
As far as these polls you reference, most of them are padded numbers. The Oneida nation is taking on the issue as have many other tribes. Again it is not the name in schools with Warriors, Chiefs, Braves, etc. It is how the culture is mocked. To answer some earlier questions:
I compared this to slavery and other examples because Native Americans were raped, slaughtered, tortured and sent to boarding schools where native children were beaten and denied meals for speaking their own language. They were forced to adopt "Christian" names. Both of my grandparents were victims of these (my grandfather was in Carlisle. For an added bonus Richard Henry Pratt who ran Carlisle once said "Kill the Indian, and Save the Man”: (Capt. Richard H. Pratt on the Education of Native Americans)
http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/4929/
And as a final comment...I'd love to extend a (sarcastic) thanks to Bob for emphasizing exactly why we feel offended by certain things:
"recognizing and celebrating an entire race of people, in the not too distant future that people is going to be known only as those who own some casinos and sell cheap cigarettes and gasoline. Probably already are in some disconnected from the world low information circles.
If you're offended by it it is only because you choose to be."
Most Native Americans do not own these establishments, some tribes do not see payouts and the fact that you can so freely use such a stereotype to encompass an entire race highlights the ignorance that makes us upset on topics such as this. Most of my friends and relatives are offended by the way teams have decided to make fun of things that are sacred to us. The name is the least of the problem but because of the way the mascots have been associated with the name, it's time for a change. Supporting teams who mock anything cultural, racial and religious is wrong. We are ALL protected under the Freedoms of this country like it or not. That includes race, religion, national origin, etc. You do not get to pick and choose when that applies or who it applies to. If an Amendment is violated, it is violated. (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/freedom+from+discrimination) Would you be alright with someone walking out in a priest's robe and cheerleaders in skimpy nun outfits doing the Miley Cyrus VMA performance? Probably not so much. The problem in our society is that if someone is harassed/bullied/belittled the answer is "grow a thicker skin," These moments could be used as teaching moments of tolerance and acceptance. This has been an issue for OVER 50 YEARS so it is not exactly breaking news.
For everyone who thinks I'm
For everyone who thinks I'm "too much" or that I'm the only one who feels this way:
http://us.m.yahoo.com/w/ygo-frontpage/lp/story/us/3422379/coke.bp%3B_yl…--?ref_w=frontdoors&view=today&.tsrc=yahoo&.intl=us&.lang=en
Read the comments from the Oneida tribe. The owner of the team makes great points about players and coaches who were native. I've always known that. It does not mean those players represent the collective sentiment of all indigenous people. I think opening the door for dialogue between native leaders and the owner of the team is a great example of my comment earlier about using these moments to teach tolerance
The Washington Post and USA
The Washington Post and USA Today said they will refer to the 'Redskins' as the 'R' word in their stories.How about they all kiss my R-word A-word and go F-word themselves.
I'm "denigrated" by having to say that I live in a country that is being defeated from within without firing a shot!
I'm "denigrated" by We the People folding like a wet R-word towel to a pack of morons running our government and accomplishing what the Germans and the Japanese couldn't accomplish in 4 years, and the F-word commie SOB's couldn't accomplish in 40 years of Cold War!
I'm "denigrated" by having to watch the F-word "leader" of the F-word "free" world not doing S-word to fix ANYTHING, but having plenty of F-word time to F-word play F-word golf and tell us what the H-word we should name a F-word football team!!
Stinky and the rest of you F-word liberals, and RINO conservatives can kiss my A-word. I have F-word about F-word run out of F-word patience.
Please Michelle, I have a lot
Please Michelle, I have a lot of friends from the Seneca Nation. Apparently my Great Grandmother is Iroquois. Viewing Redskins as offensive is as ridiculous as me getting upset being refer to as Whitey. Like has been stated, people make it offensive because they have nothing better to do than whine. To me it is just an excuse to try and establish a lawsuit in an attempt to make some easy cash.
"Most of my friends and relatives are offended by the way teams have decided to make fun of things that are sacred to us."
You have chosen to view as a joke. Why? I can only assume that, you feel it is not a official, chant or dance? People at Atlanta Brave games are doing the tomhawk to poke fun it is their way to show team spirit.
I wanted to throw my view
I wanted to throw my view into this as well. During my time in the service I lived in New London Ct. They used to have a regular native american arts and crafts festival that was more a celebration of native art and culture than it was a craft fair.
I have always felt that we the US really as an entity owe a great debt to the native peoples. Considering that our crimes against them are as great if not greater than what Hitler's nazi's did to the jewish and gypsy cultures in europe,
But if you read anything written on the subject of native american peoples written between the 1600's and 1830's you will find that the native american peoples called themselves redskins or redmen. And ourselves the whiteskins, or crossed people, (reference to the fact that almost all north american colonists were christian and for the most part devoutly so),
Michelle you and your friends may be insulted by the use of redskins for a sports team. Well how ridiculous would it be for me and some others here to take the same stance against crackers? It being a slur for the white race I find it disrespectful for people to serve them heaped with junk on them . Call them wafers or such instead of a derogatory racial slur that was given to the white overseers of slaves in the south for their use of bullwhips to discipline slaves......
Get the point yet? There is more important issues to be concerned about than the name of a sports team,
Personally... If I were the
Personally... If I were the owner the team, I'd make fun of all this insulting of natives americans by rebranding the team theme. Replacing any reference to native american culture to reference to apples instead. Leaving the name exactly the same.
which would be a big FU to all these supposed activists with a request to them to go make their drama elsewhere.
Just sayin......
This situation does not
This situation does not warrant the label, PC (politically correct). The term, PC, derives from academia; higher education self-imposing voluntary standards on the content of papers written by academics. It was subsequently inserted into the public eye by politicians who decided to politicize the movement.
The argument over athletic team names that reference Native Americans as to whether those names are racist or offensive arise from the offended parties, namely, Native Americans.
Blacks co-opted an offensive and derogatory word used by non-blacks in an effort to deflate the power of that word (just as they co-opted shaved heads to dis-empower skinheads).
I highly doubt that any professional sports club ever chose the so-called 'n-word' as their team name.
The tactic of one minority does nothing to attenuate the sting of slurs aimed at another minority. Blacks took ownership of an offensive word; the same tactic has not been initiated by Native Americans.
Despite the possibility that Native Americans may have at one time self-described themselves as "redskins," the dynamics of the word changed when 19th Century whites began using it in their campaigns to decimate Native Americans who stood in the way of white Manifest Destiny.
The notion that offending any group of people is okay because a majority of other people see nothing wrong with offending them is no argument at all. What would be said of teams such as: Atlanta Albinos, Cleveland Crackers, Boston Blue-eyed Devils, Harrisburg Honkies, Detroit Ditchpigs, Philadelphia Fish-bellies, Georgetown Gomers, Miami Mayonnaise, Orlando Ofays, Pittsburgh Peckerwoods, Raleigh Rednecks or Charlotte Shit-kickers?
To me PC doesnt equal
To me PC doesnt equal Political Correctness....it equals Personal Consideration.
This whole thing is another
This whole thing is another PC move. Remember the people who want the Atlanta Braves baseball team to change their name and stop the "chop"?
If you find the name "Redskins" offensive, then don't watch them play.
Thank you C.M. Your words sum
Thank you C.M. Your words sum this up best:
Just because we are a minority does not mean we should be ignored
Having "friends" (how close are they) does not mean they or I represent a collective voice for each tribe or Native American. No one does
If people are offended by something others should listen. Obviously I am not the only one since there are numerous tribal and human rights groups in washington this week to discuss why the name change means so much to US.
Also as CM pointed out blacks have adopted the n word but it is still hateful when directed towards them by someone who is not black and using that word against a balck person while committing a crime makes it a HATE crime. What a minority says to each other is through common understanding. Until attitudes like those posted here change words such as what have been mentioned above will remain offensive.
And no offense John but "apparently my great grandmother" does not help your case. We have joke about "my great grandmother was a cherokee princess.." That gives you 1/8 quantum and iroquois is not how you refer to your heritage. I am half native-my mother is full blood. Her mother was full blood Mohawk and her father (my grandparents) was full blood Blackfoot. Both were in government run boarding schools and tortured and abused so badly they feared registering their children so that history did not repeat itself. I speak from a lot more than an outsiders view
Michelle what it comes down
Michelle what it comes down to is that, you are making a bigot issues out of innocent names. You are making it a race issue and nothing more. Most bigots refer to Native Americans as "savage." Your opinion of the Florida Seminole fans, Atlanta Brave fans, etc...., doing some type of tomhawk chop is something these fans do for team spirit. You are making the assumption that, people are making fun of your traditions and heritage. Stop making a mountain out of a mole hill, seriously. It is attitudes like this that, make everyone walk on egg shells for no real reason. So you are full blood Mohawk, the last I knew, Nohawks did not have names like Michelle and Williams. You talk about heritage yet use the white man's name. Do you not find it offensive that, your cultural names are not used?
Michelle I truly hope you do not take me wrong. Like I stated, my heritage has some Native American. I have numerous Native American friends. I am pissed about how NYS Governor Cuomo has violated the Native Americans rights. I just do not see any valid reason why sport teams names need to be changed.
As CM puts it, teams could change their name to something like Atlanta Albinos (Animal without color) or Cleveland Crackers (A baked wheat snack). Yes, could I look at cracker as being used as a racial name but, I have tougher skin than that. So, as far as sport names changing, I say no. People need to grow thicker skin and stop being so soft and feeding the BS. I guess people need some wine with their cheese.
Michelle, no one saying that,
Michelle, no one saying that, you should be ignored but, to be realistic. Besides this country has already demostrated that, the minority is heard over the majority.
To answer your question and I
To answer your question and I stated this above- I am half native american. My father (who is white is where the last name williams came from) Sorry my name isn't hollywood enough for you. Also stated above my grandparents were in boarding schools and forced to take "white" names so even if I use their name it would still sound "white". The tomahawak chop is not offensive. The name braves is not offensive. You miss where the line. Names like braves chiefs and warriors are very fitting for sports teams. Issue is simply with the way peace pipes and headdresses are used. The war hoop is fine, the chants are fine. I wish it were easier to explain but it is not and unless you have felt discrimination or valued something and seen it disrespected then most cannot understand. Tim and CM made the points that are the problem. There should not have to be a discussion about what name is ok or not. Cracker vs the n word or redskin are quite different things. Some people. May never understand which is why we haveleaders in washington trying to explain it in a peaceful way
Iword Aword Aword Fword (not
Iword Aword Aword Fword (not that one) Aword, AND (exhausting the use of A) I Aword3 Mword Rword Tword Fword2 Fword Sword.
2021 speak for " I am a free American AND assert my right to free speech."
Hello it has nothing to do
Hello it has nothing to do with Hollywood. I am merely stating that, you refer to your heritage and tradition when replying about sport teams who use terms such as Redskin, Braves, and Indians and find it offensive. However, you do not use tradition Native American names (Just so we are clear I do not mean like "Little Eagle" this example is a definition not a name) I am talking about like for Israel for example, Ian is a Israeli name which is the equivalent to the English name for John.
You are upset with sports names yet, do not fine the Village of Cheektowaga offensive or Tuscarora Road offensive. I could go on and on with these examples. Like I stated, the ONLY reason people like yourself find sport names like the Washington Redskins offensive is because, you want to make it racial.
Michelle, what you also fail
Michelle, what you also fail to understand is that, Blacks, Native Americans are not only people who suffered discrimination. I have Scottish and Irish in me. History has shown that, both were enslaved by the English. History has shown that, the Irish were discriminated upon their arrival in America. A lot of other ethnic groups have been discriminated upon.
We all have some sort heritage discrimination at one point. I love how modern African Americans refer to themselves as an "Oppress People." They have never been oppressed in their lives. Yes, intercity schools have a lot of African American drop outs and one parent families. Yet, the only thing you hear done by people such as Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson is how the white man has oppress their people. How about they look at the root of the issue. Develop programs to stop teenage pregnancies or programs to keep our kids in school, etc... You hear racial explanations but, no resolutions. "Just placing blame and not resolving."
Look at Christmas that, is a tradition which has been changed numerous times.
I guess I can't grow
I guess I can't grow "Redskin'd" potatoes anymore then!! I also thought all the ignorant people were located in my white house & in congress in Washington DC & Albany, NY. But, I must have overlooked the locals being like that too? It is just someone that wants to cause trouble again & is "MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING AT ALL AGAIN"!!
http://www.theonion.com/artic
http://www.theonion.com/articles/redskins-kike-owner-refuses-to-change-…
:-D
The Onion nails another one...