Invading was not the wrong choice but three major mistakes were made.
1. Not going in, in October 2002 before Saddam had 6 months to get rid of his weapons.
2. Going in without payment through oil for our used resources.
3. Not having the stomach or rules of engagement in place to win when Al Quesidilla invaded after we won the first war of 2003
5. Let the Military run the wars instead of the Politicians whom have shown time and time again that, they have absolutely no clue. They keep doing things half arse. Perfect example of CLUELESSNESS is Hilary Clintons comment that, the 5 Taliban prisoners we released (for our traitor) are no threat to us. What world does she live in?
Number 2. I disagree with since, they did not ask us to come in to attack them but, we definitely should of used their resources to rebuild their country and not ours.
one thing for sure, that country was under control before the US decided to get involved. ha ha, now look at it . it's a effin mess.......can we throw some more money on it?, can we give some more US lives to it ? can we kill some more iragis? you betcha .. the US is the biggest and most powerful terrorist nation in the world, for now anyways......if I can feel this way, can you imagine how the rest of the world feels? ...
You have a point David that, Saddam did keep things in check with the different clans but, he committed severe atrocities in doing so. Saddam also, did not care for America and we should have completed the job in 1991, instead of allowing the U.N. to dictate the cease fire.
I do not agree about going in a f _ _ _ ing third time. We did however, screw this up because politicians have no clue how to fight or finish a war. Let the Military Commanders run the battle plans especially since they usually have more insight on how things need to be done. Was Saddam a threat to US? Yes but, so isn’t Iran, Syria, Yemen, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, etc…. Let’s be honest we are not liked by them at all, that was evident on 9-11 with the celebration around the world. We are viewed as hired mercenaries. We tend to back away from our promises.
You can lead a horse to water but, you can’t force it to drink. That works here to, you can lead people to freedom but, you can’t force them to keep it! If, they like what we did for them, then combat these Isis outsiders and fight for what you were given. Freedom is not given, it is earned!
David. "the US is the biggest and most powerful terrorist nation in the world".
It sickens me to hear someone that reaps this nation's benefits say that. Have we made foreign policy mistakes that have cost lives? Certainly. Do we avow to destroy every society that does not adhere to our religious and political views? No.
When we originally went into Iraq, it was the democratically controlled congress that approved it. They, and the Bush administration, received either outdated or outright wrong intel on Saddam's WMD. I tend to believe it was outdated and the WMDs were moved - probably to Syria. Regardless, our efforts deposed a ruthless and murderous tyrant.
The larger mistake we made was to leave too early. Unlike Korea, there was never a plan in place to maintain security and relative peace. I've not heard of 1000's of deaths caused by military or insurgents in South Korea. They remain a free people and prosperous nation as a DIRECT result of our continued military presence. I believe its about 30,000 troops that remain.
But back to your belief that the US is actually a terrorist nation. Do something about it. Present your ideas to the people in larger forums than our Batavian. Vote. Run for office. Advocate for your beliefs. Back what you say with facts and you'll go much farther than with simply stating an opinion or a "feeling" as you put it in the comment above. Cold hard facts.
And of course you always have the option of finding your ideal country to move to.
"It sickens me to hear someone that reaps this nation's benefits say that."
Well said, Bob Harker. I'd have a quibble with you on the nature of the intel that led us into Iraq -- outdated or outright wrong -- but that's a trivial matter compared to the rest of your post. Well said, sir.
(My bias: I think the first big mistake was going in, and the second was disbanding the Iraqi army.)
I hadn't drawn the two together, and still don't really, so I don't see any irony.
FWIW: I was pretty much a neocon in 2003. Fully supported invading Iraq. I scoffed at the critics who predicted ethnic strife, a breeding ground for anti-American terrorists, a huge drain on our economy and wealth, and a terrible cost to our service men and women ... and every prediction uttered by the the critics during the war's build up has come true.
It was a mistake to invade Iraq. Full stop.
Any quibbles about we should have done this or done that post invasion ignores the real issue that the invasion never should have taken place in the first place. It was built on a weak pre-text and faulty sense of the place in the world for American power. It should be a lesson learned about using our resources to protect this country, not mess in the mess of others.
Nothing has been gain by the invasion, and nothing could have been gained no matter what we would have done. It was a foolish and impossible mission from the time of its very conception. Much lost, nothing gained.
We need to stop policing the world and take care of the home fires.
The issue of the Iraq war is one of the most polarizing political topics of late and the majority of people are pretty steadfast in their stance. In our area, a 70/30 split is not surprising but I would guess that it is closer to 50/50 nationwide, maybe even skewed towards a no. Since none of us had access directly to the intelligence, 100% of us rely on the media for the facts on which we make our case. This is the same media that only 8% trust as accurate according to the previous poll. So we are, for the most part, making a hard stand on an issue based on information from a source we just said yesterday we don't trust.
Bob, I don't need to do anything about this terrorist nation......
you do know the U.S. is flying un-manned aircraft on the other side of the world and killing people with them? if that isn't terrorism, I don't know what is. this country is hell bent on killing people. the only way I can think of to stop it is to re-instate the draft. then the people of the U.S. will stand up and say enough is enough.
So you are content to just sit and bitch instead of doing something. I find that very sad, yet all too common.
That being the case, let me repeat the last sentence of my previous post: "And of course you always have the option of finding your ideal country to move to."
I suggest that France would be a good choice for you.
bob, you're wrong again if you think i'm bitching. I stated a few facts and my opinion. as of today I can still do that.what makes you think i'm not doing something anyways? as far as suggesting a place I can go, I have a suggestion for you too but howard will pull my post, so you can guess where i'm suggesting you go.
"one thing for sure, that country was under control before the US decided to get involved. ha ha, now look at it . it's a effin mess.......can we throw some more money on it?, can we give some more US lives to it ? can we kill some more iragis? you betcha .. the US is the biggest and most powerful terrorist nation in the world, for now anyways......if I can feel this way, can you imagine how the rest of the world feels? ..."
I'm kinda slow. Please point out the facts that I missed in you post.
If you can do this without your attempts at inferred personal insults that would be appreciated.
" I have a suggestion for you too but howard will pull my post, so you can guess where i'm suggesting you go."
Not expecting you to, but anything is possible, right?
".what makes you think i'm not doing something anyways?"
Because you said so - "Bob, I don't need to do anything about this terrorist nation....."
Invading was not the wrong
Invading was not the wrong choice but three major mistakes were made.
1. Not going in, in October 2002 before Saddam had 6 months to get rid of his weapons.
2. Going in without payment through oil for our used resources.
3. Not having the stomach or rules of engagement in place to win when Al Quesidilla invaded after we won the first war of 2003
All valid points, Peter
All valid points, Peter
Agreed Peter but, you forgot
Agreed Peter but, you forgot a couple.
4. No Post War Plan in place.
5. Let the Military run the wars instead of the Politicians whom have shown time and time again that, they have absolutely no clue. They keep doing things half arse. Perfect example of CLUELESSNESS is Hilary Clintons comment that, the 5 Taliban prisoners we released (for our traitor) are no threat to us. What world does she live in?
Number 2. I disagree with since, they did not ask us to come in to attack them but, we definitely should of used their resources to rebuild their country and not ours.
one thing for sure, that
one thing for sure, that country was under control before the US decided to get involved. ha ha, now look at it . it's a effin mess.......can we throw some more money on it?, can we give some more US lives to it ? can we kill some more iragis? you betcha .. the US is the biggest and most powerful terrorist nation in the world, for now anyways......if I can feel this way, can you imagine how the rest of the world feels? ...
You have a point David that,
You have a point David that, Saddam did keep things in check with the different clans but, he committed severe atrocities in doing so. Saddam also, did not care for America and we should have completed the job in 1991, instead of allowing the U.N. to dictate the cease fire.
I do not agree about going in a f _ _ _ ing third time. We did however, screw this up because politicians have no clue how to fight or finish a war. Let the Military Commanders run the battle plans especially since they usually have more insight on how things need to be done. Was Saddam a threat to US? Yes but, so isn’t Iran, Syria, Yemen, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, etc…. Let’s be honest we are not liked by them at all, that was evident on 9-11 with the celebration around the world. We are viewed as hired mercenaries. We tend to back away from our promises.
You can lead a horse to water but, you can’t force it to drink. That works here to, you can lead people to freedom but, you can’t force them to keep it! If, they like what we did for them, then combat these Isis outsiders and fight for what you were given. Freedom is not given, it is earned!
David. "the US is the biggest
David. "the US is the biggest and most powerful terrorist nation in the world".
It sickens me to hear someone that reaps this nation's benefits say that. Have we made foreign policy mistakes that have cost lives? Certainly. Do we avow to destroy every society that does not adhere to our religious and political views? No.
When we originally went into Iraq, it was the democratically controlled congress that approved it. They, and the Bush administration, received either outdated or outright wrong intel on Saddam's WMD. I tend to believe it was outdated and the WMDs were moved - probably to Syria. Regardless, our efforts deposed a ruthless and murderous tyrant.
The larger mistake we made was to leave too early. Unlike Korea, there was never a plan in place to maintain security and relative peace. I've not heard of 1000's of deaths caused by military or insurgents in South Korea. They remain a free people and prosperous nation as a DIRECT result of our continued military presence. I believe its about 30,000 troops that remain.
But back to your belief that the US is actually a terrorist nation. Do something about it. Present your ideas to the people in larger forums than our Batavian. Vote. Run for office. Advocate for your beliefs. Back what you say with facts and you'll go much farther than with simply stating an opinion or a "feeling" as you put it in the comment above. Cold hard facts.
And of course you always have the option of finding your ideal country to move to.
"It sickens me to hear
"It sickens me to hear someone that reaps this nation's benefits say that."
Well said, Bob Harker. I'd have a quibble with you on the nature of the intel that led us into Iraq -- outdated or outright wrong -- but that's a trivial matter compared to the rest of your post. Well said, sir.
(My bias: I think the first big mistake was going in, and the second was disbanding the Iraqi army.)
The mistake was not getting
The mistake was not getting the job done in 1991.
I don't know if it was
I don't know if it was intentional, but following yesterday's post with this one is extremely ironic.
You mean yesterday's poll? I
You mean yesterday's poll?
I hadn't drawn the two together, and still don't really, so I don't see any irony.
FWIW: I was pretty much a neocon in 2003. Fully supported invading Iraq. I scoffed at the critics who predicted ethnic strife, a breeding ground for anti-American terrorists, a huge drain on our economy and wealth, and a terrible cost to our service men and women ... and every prediction uttered by the the critics during the war's build up has come true.
It was a mistake to invade Iraq. Full stop.
Any quibbles about we should have done this or done that post invasion ignores the real issue that the invasion never should have taken place in the first place. It was built on a weak pre-text and faulty sense of the place in the world for American power. It should be a lesson learned about using our resources to protect this country, not mess in the mess of others.
Nothing has been gain by the invasion, and nothing could have been gained no matter what we would have done. It was a foolish and impossible mission from the time of its very conception. Much lost, nothing gained.
We need to stop policing the world and take care of the home fires.
The issue of the Iraq war is
The issue of the Iraq war is one of the most polarizing political topics of late and the majority of people are pretty steadfast in their stance. In our area, a 70/30 split is not surprising but I would guess that it is closer to 50/50 nationwide, maybe even skewed towards a no. Since none of us had access directly to the intelligence, 100% of us rely on the media for the facts on which we make our case. This is the same media that only 8% trust as accurate according to the previous poll. So we are, for the most part, making a hard stand on an issue based on information from a source we just said yesterday we don't trust.
Bob, I don't need to do
Bob, I don't need to do anything about this terrorist nation......
you do know the U.S. is flying un-manned aircraft on the other side of the world and killing people with them? if that isn't terrorism, I don't know what is. this country is hell bent on killing people. the only way I can think of to stop it is to re-instate the draft. then the people of the U.S. will stand up and say enough is enough.
So you are content to just
So you are content to just sit and bitch instead of doing something. I find that very sad, yet all too common.
That being the case, let me repeat the last sentence of my previous post: "And of course you always have the option of finding your ideal country to move to."
I suggest that France would be a good choice for you.
bob, you're wrong again if
bob, you're wrong again if you think i'm bitching. I stated a few facts and my opinion. as of today I can still do that.what makes you think i'm not doing something anyways? as far as suggesting a place I can go, I have a suggestion for you too but howard will pull my post, so you can guess where i'm suggesting you go.
"one thing for sure, that
"one thing for sure, that country was under control before the US decided to get involved. ha ha, now look at it . it's a effin mess.......can we throw some more money on it?, can we give some more US lives to it ? can we kill some more iragis? you betcha .. the US is the biggest and most powerful terrorist nation in the world, for now anyways......if I can feel this way, can you imagine how the rest of the world feels? ..."
I'm kinda slow. Please point out the facts that I missed in you post.
If you can do this without your attempts at inferred personal insults that would be appreciated.
" I have a suggestion for you too but howard will pull my post, so you can guess where i'm suggesting you go."
Not expecting you to, but anything is possible, right?
".what makes you think i'm not doing something anyways?"
Because you said so - "Bob, I don't need to do anything about this terrorist nation....."