Teabaggers and the gutless GOP "leadership" that is letting a small minority of their membership hurt America.
This government has made commitments, yet these folks who claim to be proponents of responsibility have no intention of fulfilling those commitments. They are even willing to trash the faith in US bonds for their myopic purpose.
The only difference between these fanatics and others is that these folks don't foolishly believe there will be 72 virgins waiting for them..
OK now that you have just regurgitated all the usual talking points from the left that are pointless and untrue, and can be said about the left as well. Lets hear something new.
When I hear the word "blame", I picture something bad happening and that someone was the cause of the bad thing happening.
The Federal shutdown is not a bad thing. It has already shown how many departments and employees are non essential. These non essential departments need to be closed and the employees furloughed permanently.
The commitments that you mention have to do with the debt ceiling, the shutdown is two distinct points 1) Delaying the personal mandate of the ACA for 1 year until mandate on certain businesses were waived. 2) Removing the waiver for congressional and white house aides.... That is it
The talk about combining this with the debt ceiling fight although gaining ground, originated in the media and the white house, pretty much a political diversion to take the public's eye off the issue at hand, and as yet not the same issue although again it looks like it is heading that they will be merged.
Who is to blame for the government shutdown...........................We are to blame...We elected every single one of them....This is the government the we elected.
I don't really care what they do in Washington DC because I don't depend on the federal government for diddlysquat & haven't filed any tax forms in the past 6 years, & am NOT going to do so anytime in the near or distant future anyway.... :)
This was written in 1985, 28 years ago, and still here we are........................
The 545 People Responsible For All Of U.S. Woes
BY Charley Reese
Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then campaign against them.
Have you ever wondered why, if both the Democrats and the Republicans are against deficits, we have deficits? Have you ever wondered why, if all the politicians are against inflation and high taxes, we have inflation and high taxes?
You and I don't propose a federal budget. The president does. You and I don't have the Constitutional authority to vote on appropriations. The House of Representatives does. You and I don't write the tax code. Congress does. You and I don't set fiscal policy. Congress does. You and I don't control monetary policy. The Federal Reserve Bank does.
One hundred senators, 435 congressmen, one president and nine Supreme Court justices - 545 human beings out of the 235 million - are directly, legally, morally and individually responsible for the domestic problems that plague this country.
I excluded the members of the Federal Reserve Board because that problem was created by the Congress. In 1913, Congress delegated its Constitutional duty to provide a sound currency to a federally chartered but private central bank.
I excluded all but the special interests and lobbyists for a sound reason. They have no legal authority. They have no ability to coerce a senator, a congressman or a president to do one cotton-picking thing. I don't care if they offer a politician $1 million dollars in cash. The politician has the power to accept or reject it.
No matter what the lobbyist promises, it is the legislation's responsibility to determine how he votes.
A CONFIDENCE CONSPIRACY
Don't you see how the con game that is played on the people by the politicians? Those 545 human beings spend much of their energy convincing you that what they did is not their fault. They cooperate in this common con regardless of party.
What separates a politician from a normal human being is an excessive amount of gall. No normal human being would have the gall of Tip O'Neill, who stood up and criticized Ronald Reagan for creating deficits.
The president can only propose a budget. He cannot force the Congress to accept it. The Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land, gives sole responsibility to the House of Representatives for originating appropriations and taxes.
O'neill is the speaker of the House. He is the leader of the majority party. He and his fellow Democrats, not the president, can approve any budget they want. If the president vetos it, they can pass it over his veto.
REPLACE SCOUNDRELS
It seems inconceivable to me that a nation of 235 million cannot replace 545 people who stand convicted -- by present facts - of incompetence and irresponsibility.
I can't think of a single domestic problem, from an unfair tax code to defense overruns, that is not traceable directly to those 545 people.
When you fully grasp the plain truth that 545 people exercise power of the federal government, then it must follow that what exists is what they want to exist.
If the tax code is unfair, it's because they want it unfair. If the budget is in the red, it's because they want it in the red. If the Marines are in Lebanon, it's because they want them in Lebanon.
There are no insoluble government problems. Do not let these 545 people shift the blame to bureaucrats, whom they hire and whose jobs they can abolish; to lobbyists, whose gifts and advice they can reject; to regulators, to whom they give the power to regulate and from whom they can take it.
Above all, do not let them con you into the belief that there exist disembodied mystical forces like "the economy," "inflation" or "politics" that prevent them from doing what they take an oath to do.
Those 545 people and they alone are responsible. They and they alone have the power. They and they alone should be held accountable by the people who are their bosses - provided they have the gumption to manage their own employees.
This article was first published by the Orlando Sentinel Star newspaper
"Teabaggers and the gutless GOP "leadership" that is letting a small minority of their membership hurt America."
Exactly. This isn't rhetoric. It's a fact.
All that's standing in the way of funding our government is John Boehner. As I understand it, he's essentially been kneecapped by the Tea Bags. If he does the correct and moral thing, he will lose his speakership.
Whatever happened to the "buck stops here"? When speaking about leadership, Henry Ford said "Don't find fault, find a remedy" President Obama holds sole responsibility for the mess we find ourselves in. He has had 5 years to display some semblence of real leadership and has failed miserably, All those who stoop to nothing more than childish sexual innuendo and over the top rhetoric immediately discredit themselves as legitimate contributors to real discourse.
The Social Security Administration has an office in the Key Bank Building in Down town Buffalo. I pass by the help window every day on the way to my office in the same building. The window has been open everyday since the shut down went into effect.
All of the above, and since we elected these powermongers, we have no one to blame but ourselves.
BTW, "shutdown" is this year's "fiscal cliff", a phrase that has been incessantly bantered about to the point of nausea.
And Sean. do you know what a real teabagger is? I thought you did. Are you bummed the GOP is using a term that applies to deviant homosexual acts? Seriously, it's an offensive term that is not appreciated.
Thanks Bud and Jeff, I was thinking along the same lines. I have no love for the Republicans or any sympathy for their internal problems, but using "Tea Bagger" was funny 2 years ago and just tedious now. It was however vulgar then and still is. Vulgarity reflects more on the one using it rather than the ones you are trying to insult.
This country is divided, on most of the issues facing the govt.. So why should our representatives be any different, they are a true reflection
of where this country is today.
This is nothing new, Our congress and executive throughout our history has been divided on a multitude of issues many of them that appeared just as grave at the time.
Alexander Hamilton was sued by his political opposition, involved in a torrid affair in another situation and final shot and killed by the Vice President Of the United states in a Duel;
In the midst of a civil war, Abraham Lincoln could not win re-nomination to his party for a second term and had to run on a third party win his second term as president.
Aaron Burr the third vice president was accused of treason for his desire to invade Mexico and impeached.
Andrew Jackson filled his cabinet with friends and family rather than qualified advisors
Andrew Johnson was impeached
Grover Cleveland almost drove this nation to bankruptcy in the 1800's
One congress passed a constitutional amendment AND CONVINCE 2/3RDS of the states to agree on prohibition which set our nation into a crime wave of bootlegging and vice crime
The list goes on, and on.
Regardless of what happens with the debt ceiling, our debt will be paid, it may mean the elimination of many government jobs and departments, but no president and no congress will allow our debts not to be paid, in the end the debt ceiling will be raised or re allocations of the budget. Either way, we are NOT in default until the actual bill isn't paid and in the end debt ceiling increase or not they will be.
All that said, the premise that we are in crisis and our government is going to hell and a hand basket has persisted almost since the day it was formed.
All said and done, The house has the constitutional authority NOT to fund Obamacare, even if a previous congress passed it into law. The Congress, and the house is part of congress has every bit the constitutional authority NOT to raise the Debt ceiling and force spending cuts instead. No matter how much political rhetoric, no matter how personally offended the President might feel. The fact is if you truly look at the constitution, the house is well within it's rights to vote NO, regardless of what any congress before has done, that is both the beauty and the peril of our constitution.
To my friends on the right, just for clarification -- your team owns this one. The President was re-elected by more than 3 million votes last year. Like it or not, that is a referendum on the ACA. The SCOTUS also upheald the ACA. Therefore, the only way to change the law of the land is win the next one and if you control two branches of government legislate the change. For God sakes don't shut down the government furloughing 800,000 workers. Don't put miners in danger because the inspectors are off the job. Don't keep the American people away from the enjoyment of our national parks. And don't put a fragile economy in danger of reverting back to recession. You don't always get your way in a democracy. Holding the government hostage because you don't like a law is not a governing strategy.
OK what the hell is a SCOTUS? And why can't you people spell out something, instead of giving it an "initial's" name!! Too much too write or can't you spell all the words that is represents?? And there is NO "A" in the word "Upheld" ! Just sayin'..
We need less left and right, and more center focused people in Washington. We also need term limits, so these elitists don't become so entrenched and out of touch with reality. 2 term limit on congress, and make the President a 1 term, 6 year office.
And John, the acronym SCOTUS is for the Supreme Court of the United States.
YW, lol .....(jk)
I'm not taking sides on this one, Lorie, but I would argue that the House of Representatives has the constitutional power to appropriate funds in whatever manner they vote on. They are not required to fund something just because it's law. I checked the "all of them" box because neither side is willing to chop up their special interest give-aways or pork projects to reduce the overall budget in order to afford The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA), commonly called the Affordable Care Act (ACA) or Obamacare (that's for John). Next will be the debt ceiling stand-off. The 2 party political system in Washington DC has led the nation straight into this either / or , all or nothing impasse time and time again. I'm with Bud, term limits and the end of career politicians. More and better ballot access, more open elections, more candidates from different parties and true independents.
Dave, the people in the house can also man up and take responsibility for their actions. This weak kneed response we hear from Cruz and the rest of the Tea Party is pathetic and transparent. Cruz did it, it was the plan the Tea Party ran on, they need to own it. If you don't have the votes, you can't pick the ball up and walk away. The Tea party is going to be held accountable for their actions in the end good or bad. Time for them to own it.
Well, Charlie he is very popular in his state. If the so-called moderate republicans would cut out all the pork and special interest money thereby encouraging the democrats to do the same by embarrassment (if that's even possible), then Obamacare could be funded without incurring more debt. then they could campaign against it next year as Lorie says. But that won't happen, because as you might agree, there is hardly any difference between most republicans and democrats. This is the way most of them want it. Winners and losers, right versus left, lesser of 2 evils etc. Cruz and the Tea Party bunch are sort of different, but not quite enough for me. The real battle is the incredible amount of spending that continues to increase year after year. It has to be confronted. Everything that is currently shut-down, should probably be privatized for starters. Certain Federal Government departments need to be dissolved, and defense spending can easily be greatly reduced by stopping involvement in foreign wars. Term limits and a reduction in pay and perks for congressman and senators should be next. Obamacare is just a catalyst, or so I hope.
So yes, they should own it.
Dave, from what I understand progress on the budget was made and in the end they will be voting on a CR just north of the Ryan budget. At some point you have to stop playing politics and accept a win. You need to make yourself sound reasonable and go for the next win. Change is a gradual process, being stupid and going for too much too soon is a hard lesson Cruz and the rest of them are about to learn.
If Obamacare is truly a failure than that will become evident all by itself and those who supported it will be out of office. That's how the system works. It's time for the Tea Party to have some faith in the American people.
If a congressman was elected by the people of his district on a promise to do everything in his power to fight/repeal Obamacare, what should he or she do? Keep the promise, or rollover for the President?
Charlie, members of the house as you know, are elected by their local constituencies, and are NOT there to comply with the people in the nation at large. You and others keep throwing the TEA PARTY out there as if if is a fringe group, to us here in WNY, the TEA PARTY is basically a fringe group, but in many of the 200 districts won by the republicans, yes the TEA PARTY had influence, but also every other voter in their district overwhelmingly in 2010 and maintained a significant majority of the house in 2012.
They are doing EXACTLY what the voters in their districts elected them to do, EXACTLY what they said they were going to do in both election cycles. We are a NATION OF STATES, not a NATION WHICH CONTAINS STATES. And no matter what the Rhetoric, Senator Cruz won his seat in Texas, Congressman Ryan in Wisconsin, Congresswoman Bachman in Minnesota and so on, All the generic polling about congress is meaningless, any criticism of a congressman from Kentucky is pointless as the ONLY voters these people are responsible to are those who vote in their respective States and Districts.
ALL OF THAT SAID, they are doing exactly what they said they would do when they ran, and exactly what the voters in their districts accepted when they elected them. All this reasoning that it was passed by one congress so it is sacred and because of that another congress should yield is ridiculous and not at all with out precedent, The congress elected in 1972 voted to financially support South Vietnam after we withdrew, only to have that funding denied by the congress elected in 1974.
Through out our history, that same scenario has played out over and over. That is how our constitution applies and NO CONGRESS can pass a law that is not subject to repeal by another congress. Only a constitutional amendment can make the ACA or the raising of the Debt limit binding on another congress, I am not at all certain that the ACA would survive a State to State vote on making the ACA an amendment, and since amendments must originate in the House, it is unlikely at this time that it would even come to that.
The Vitriol that many are crying about has been with us since the first congress and will be with us as long as we live under the constitution,
Exactly to my point and the reason for this thread. The Tea/Republican party is responsible for the shutdown. They ran on the idea of shutting the government down and did exactly what they planned to do. What they were elected to do. So we need to stop the coy responses to questions and the strange quest to find the responsible party. It's an insult to our intelligence to state anything other than the Tea Party shutdown the government. Time to man up.
I agree with you Charlie, own it and run with it. I think they realize they'll need to compromise somewhere and haven't figured out how to spin it. Which is why I don't like them in the end. They are still political apparatchiks. However, I can't agree with fighting small battles. It's always 1 step forward, 2 steps back. Sometime ago you said something about money and influence being a big part of the problem. No doubt about it.
A lot can be said for going slow, being seen as polite and reasonable. Paul seems to be taking that course to me, even if he basically says the same thing as Cruz. That's the difference between a guy with a clue and Cruz.
Dave you are so dead on with regard to the 17th Amendment in particular. There is a direct correlation between the adoption of the 17th and the steady influx of political money after. People forget that SENATORS were intended in the constitution to represent the States, NOT the people directly.
Before the 17th, state legislatures would appoint Senators and that pretty much left the money out of the equation although one of the stated reasons by those that supported the amendment used the 'Buying of Seats' as one of the reasons to back it, since it has become all about the money, the exact opposite of it's intent.
Charlie, they are all responsible. Harry Reid and Obama refuse to negotiate under any Republican or Tea Party terms. Obama's job as President is to settle differences and to come up with solutions, not to be part of a school yard brawl. Look at what Clinton did during his time in office with a Republican Majority. He sat and talked but, Obama leaves to go golfing or on vacation or on some international expedition. He runs from the issue rather than figure it out. Clinton resolved issues with communition and open mindness.
The Republicans are doing as requested by a 2-1 margin of US Citizens, who want Obamacare/Affordable Care Act delayed and/or removed. Heck Obama has dodge the question six times about whether not if, he is so proud of his healthcare plan will he sign up and use it. Not to mention why is this plan only good for the American People and not the 545 Politicians that, are there to represent their fellow Americans? That is a red flag for most Americans. Obama's healthcare will only benefit a few Americans while the majority is forced to pay the bill. Even the ones that benefit will not always get the medical coverage they will need. Obama based his healthcare system on the European System in which most people are unhappy. Britain and Canada have their own systems but, those are not without flaws either.
Why is it so, hard for the Democrats and Obama to just delay and/or rewrite the healthcare plan with some "REAL THOUGHT and PLANNING?" It was rushed to appease the faithful Obama supporters. However, it was rushed with no real understanding. There are Americans out there who support the Affordable Care Act (ACA) but, not Obamacare. How is that possible? They are the same thing!
What it comes down to is whether it is a law or not, the American People have the right to challenge before, during or after a law has been passed. Since, we all have seen issues with this Obamacare, I think we are obligated to get real answers and real solutions. I am unhappy with the shutdown and I am effected by it but, I have to give thanks to John Boehner along with the Republicans, Tea Party members and even some Democrats who feel Obamacare should be delayed and looked over. Why some feel that, people do not have a right to challenge until the next election is puzzling.
Thinking Obama will give up his signature achievement is just a failure of understanding. All the seas will dry up before that happens. You have to have the common sense not to promise your base something you could never deliver. The only surprise is that the Tea Party could have so little understanding of their nemesis. Now the country should feel sorry for the Tea Party's lack of long term planning? I hear a lot of hogwash about Obama won't deal. The Tea Party's Poor planning isn't his emergency. The Tea Party bit off too much and now they are in a pickle. Why should Obama deal, he's of the same political mindset. He has his enemies with their back against the wall and they are being pummeled.
You also need to believe the Tea Party truly wants to settle this, that would be naive. I believe they want the government to collapse, it's their self fulfilling prophecy.
Enemies? Really? This is one of the many problems with our political system. We should never use terms such as enemies in political discussion. We are all Americans. I do not see a responsible government at all. Enemy is something I expect at a high school brawl after a football game. Obamacare is poor planning and now alot of Americans are educating themselves on it. Obama and the rest of our government's job is to served the People in which all side are not conducting effectively. They are putting their own feelings ahead of ours. The ones who find fault with just the Republicans and Tea Party are not looking at the whole picture of the shutdown. You know I am a Democrat but, I find fault with all our knuckleheads. We need to make all our politicians answer for the failure of our government. We need to stop listening to the Obama Bull, whom we all know has redirected issue after issue with no real answers. We caught him in lie after lie only for another issue to come up to take focus of the lie and place somewhere else.
I do believe we need to set term limits for OUR Congress, Senate and President. Set it to a eight years one term Presidency since, it takes a minimum of eight years to see an economic plan take effect. This with no retirement or full medical coverage. For Congress and the Senate the same limit. New faces bring in new and realistic ideas. If they make a law, no exemption for them at all. If it is good for the "American People" it is good for them! We could come up with a proposal/plan in case our elected officials do not operate as we intended.
Oh yeah they all need to be limited to thirty days, per year for vacation. We need to let the American People vote on their pay raises and we could conducted that, during elections to save cost from setting up additional polling/voting stations. BTW, Congress and Senate could actually be two, four years terms. No retirement or full medical coverage. Our military men and women put their life on the line and are subject to alot of difference issues which affect their health in other countries. They do not get these benefits and the only ones they actually fight for is us.
Probably. Not sure who stated this above but, it is true. We as a people cannot agree ourselves so, our government reflects the same. The only problem is that, our people are not serving themselves. Our government is taking care of themselves with Golden Parachutes and exemptions from certain laws to protect themselves from known issues within those laws.
I am just tired of the whole political nonsense and wish people did not support such nonsense. I believe our society has become a society of taking and not giving. If, I do not have what Timmy has then I should be given it through my belief of entitlement and fairness. Aka, why should I work for it?
How come the Tea Party is tagged as an extreme group ..But the occupy wall street group was not..Where is the great occupy wall street groups..The Tea Party ,wither right or wrong is standing true to their beliefs.They ran for office and got elected....The so called Occupy Wall Street group who was praised by the left is no where to be found.What office did they run for....The government is not shut down as many would have us believe..85% of the government is at work....
If we can't keep going with as Mark showed over 85% who are on the job something is wrong...How dependent are we on this government?..We still have all our State ,county and local government workers on the job..Obama would have us all believe that these 15% who aren't on the job ,is going to bring the whole federal government down...Pure BS...They are called non essential for a reason..The people who are off the job are going to get full pay when they return..I don't understand this..They should be on layoff and collecting unemployment just like the rest of america who works in the private sector when their companies lay them off....
The last two posts sum up the real plan. There is no desire to end the shutdown or raise the debt ceiling. The political talking points are now, "it's not so bad". A government collapse is the real Tea Party plan. Hold on people, your going to get your wish.
I don't know about a collapse, Charlie. Maybe if the tied to the hip of congress stock market takes a dive too. In any event a serious re- prioritizing of federal expenditure is surely called for.
1. The Tea Party was so naive it had no idea that Obama would never give up his signature achievement and promised something to their base they could never deliver.
2. A government detox. Collapse of the government was the Tea Party's ultimate goal. They dislike government and would rather live without it. They want to convince people they really don't need government.
I lean towards #2 because I can't believe they actual thought Obama would gut his legacy. Obamacare is funded now, this shutdown fails to kill it and only hurts the Tea Party politically.
Charlie, I don't recall any Republican running on the precept of shutting down the government. Several ran on repealing Obamacare. The two are mutually exclusive. They ran on debt reduction as well as repeal of ACA. We are about to run out of money and the ACA will certainly take us over the fiscal cliff and yet NO ONE is willing to ask the question or hold Obama responsible for the fact that we are about to exceed the debt ceiling AGAIN after 5 years of his "leadership". The shutdown is not a strategy, is is the natural consequence of the failure to not only reign in spending, but the reckless addition of it through the ACA. ACA was passed on straight party lines, Obama and the Dems own this shutdown 100%
Jeff we need to get past denial and come to terms with reality. Even a casual observer can see through those weak GOP talking points. Like I've said serval times, it's time for the Tea Party to own it. They all need to Stop the winking and nodding and own the grand plan. We all see the Tea party speeches and rallies, even us non party types watch tv. TP leadership can't say one thing to your party faithful and then another to the rest of us. We all have TVs and the internet. They are happy they shutdown the government and will drive us over the edge. They need to own it. Come clean and tell us their plans.
Charlie, you are correct, we need to get past the denial. Obama by default has the advantage of the bully pulpit as well as lapdog media outlets and uses both to perpetuate some of the most outrageous falsehoods on the American public. At this point he could hold a press conference to declare that the sky is green and it would not be challenged. 90% or better of Americans are working off of a "headline mentality". They read the headline, accept it on it's entirety, don't read the rest of the piece nor challenge any of it's assertions and then set their course. The scourge of the uninformed voter has reached an all time low and this administration is taking full advantage.
You know on that denial thing and ownership thing Charlie.
"March 16, 2006, during the Bush administration, the Senate voted 52-48 to increase the debt limit. It seems like 48 Senators were not so concerned about the consequence of not raising the debt limit in 2006. But the real interesting fact is learned when you look at the detailed vote.
U.S. Senate Roll Call Votes 109th Congress – 2nd Session H.J.Res. 47
Of the 52 Senators voting to raise the debt limit, every one was a Republican. Of the 48 that voted against raising the debt limit, 3 were republicans and the rest were Democrats (and “Independents”)."
And
"On Dec 24, 2009, the Senate voted 60 to 39 to increase the debt limit again. The bill was entitled “Continued Financing of Government Operations”, but it was a debt limit increase bill. Click Here to see the text of the bill. It’s about 20 words and it increased the limit to $12.394T.
So, how did this vote go? The vote was 60 to 39. 59 Democrats/Independents (and 1 Republican) voted to increase the debt limit, and 38 Republicans (and 1 Democrat) voted not to increase the debt limit. See the results yourself."
It is all a SCAM on both sides, the party in power will want the debt limit preserved to maintain their pet programs, the party out of power will vote not to in an attempt to stop it, it isn't anything new.
The FACT is, the debt will be paid either by raising the limit or cutting programs, plain and simple. I say cut the programs again across the board, all the dire predictions are strictly political. Just like sequestration was supposed to cripple the economy, hmm how did that play out?
Mark i agree on the doom and gloom over the sequestration ..Especially since all the sequestration was about cutting a % of future increases to government programs..Just like all the hype by calling this a government shut down..It's not..It is 15% of the government is not at work..
And if the debt ceiling is not raised next week, the full faith and credit of the United States will not be destroyed either. Last year, I believe the federal government took in 2.440 trillion dollars which is 203 billion per month averaged. They should be able to pay the interest on the debt. They just can't lease a Range Rover and eat caviar and Kobe beef everyday anymore. A Chevy and chicken works for me, should for them too.
It's the spending,It's the spending,It's the spending,It's the spending,It's the spending,
It's the spending,It's the spending,It's the spending,It's the spending,It's the spending.
Your right Dave...They act like no money will coming into the government after the 15th..They will be taking in almost 230 billion a month..Interest on the debt is 20 billion a month...So there is no way they would default...But like you said maybe they won't be leasing range rovers and private planes..Or sending millions to country's who hate us.....
Dave, you hit the nail on the head. Rand Paul was pointing out on the Sunday morning shows that the government monthly revenue is around 250 billion a month and the interest on our debt is around 20 million. In other words there is no reasonable assumption that we would have to default. We simply need to cut spending.
Charlie, the real reason this shutdown accorded is because, Obama and Reid are refusing to hear the majority of American's voice to delay/rewrite Obamacare. Debbie can argue that, the Obama and Reid have attempted to negotiate but, she is wrong. Obama is ignoring the majortiy of Americans and forcing his will onto them. The Republicans and Tea Party are actually representing the majority of Americans who want Obamacare stopped. For Obama to claim that, Republicans are holding Obamacare as a hostage is ridiculous.
Obama is clearly holding our jobs as hostage until, Obamacare is funded.
Sorry John, I don't debate talking points. I salute the sheep on both sides. Keep watching your crazy political entertainment news and continue beating the crap out of each other till the country falls apart. I feel nothing but disgrace and embarrassment for what all the talking heads have done to our country. You all are so convinced you can solve all our countries problems with your bag of focus group vetted one liners.
Real problems require working together and not show boating. Until political parties are outlawed and their leaders hung, we as a country will never prosper.
Teabaggers and the gutless
Teabaggers and the gutless GOP "leadership" that is letting a small minority of their membership hurt America.
This government has made commitments, yet these folks who claim to be proponents of responsibility have no intention of fulfilling those commitments. They are even willing to trash the faith in US bonds for their myopic purpose.
The only difference between these fanatics and others is that these folks don't foolishly believe there will be 72 virgins waiting for them..
OK now that you have just
OK now that you have just regurgitated all the usual talking points from the left that are pointless and untrue, and can be said about the left as well. Lets hear something new.
LIBERALISM IS A MENTAL DISORDER!
Nothing like fighting
Nothing like fighting rhetoric with rhetoric...
When I hear the word "blame",
When I hear the word "blame", I picture something bad happening and that someone was the cause of the bad thing happening.
The Federal shutdown is not a bad thing. It has already shown how many departments and employees are non essential. These non essential departments need to be closed and the employees furloughed permanently.
There is no blame here.
An example, Essential: The
An example,
Essential: The workers who cut and send out the Social Security checks.
Non-essential: The workers in charge of processing new Social Security claims.
My guess Don is that anyone just about to retire would disagree with you.
Cool! The blame game. Last
Cool!
The blame game.
Last time I checked, Representatives, Senators and Presidents don't elect themselves.
So it appears that "We the People" are getting what we voted for, eh?
Point.
Set.
Match.
I win!
:lol:
POINT OF ORDER TIM The
POINT OF ORDER TIM
The commitments that you mention have to do with the debt ceiling, the shutdown is two distinct points 1) Delaying the personal mandate of the ACA for 1 year until mandate on certain businesses were waived. 2) Removing the waiver for congressional and white house aides.... That is it
The talk about combining this with the debt ceiling fight although gaining ground, originated in the media and the white house, pretty much a political diversion to take the public's eye off the issue at hand, and as yet not the same issue although again it looks like it is heading that they will be merged.
Hope the next president is a
Hope the next president is a name we have all heard of well before election time?
Who is to blame for the
Who is to blame for the government shutdown...........................We are to blame...We elected every single one of them....This is the government the we elected.
"Democracy is the theory that
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."
H. L. Mencken
I don't really care what they
I don't really care what they do in Washington DC because I don't depend on the federal government for diddlysquat & haven't filed any tax forms in the past 6 years, & am NOT going to do so anytime in the near or distant future anyway.... :)
This was written in 1985, 28
This was written in 1985, 28 years ago, and still here we are........................
The 545 People Responsible For All Of U.S. Woes
BY Charley Reese
Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then campaign against them.
Have you ever wondered why, if both the Democrats and the Republicans are against deficits, we have deficits? Have you ever wondered why, if all the politicians are against inflation and high taxes, we have inflation and high taxes?
You and I don't propose a federal budget. The president does. You and I don't have the Constitutional authority to vote on appropriations. The House of Representatives does. You and I don't write the tax code. Congress does. You and I don't set fiscal policy. Congress does. You and I don't control monetary policy. The Federal Reserve Bank does.
One hundred senators, 435 congressmen, one president and nine Supreme Court justices - 545 human beings out of the 235 million - are directly, legally, morally and individually responsible for the domestic problems that plague this country.
I excluded the members of the Federal Reserve Board because that problem was created by the Congress. In 1913, Congress delegated its Constitutional duty to provide a sound currency to a federally chartered but private central bank.
I excluded all but the special interests and lobbyists for a sound reason. They have no legal authority. They have no ability to coerce a senator, a congressman or a president to do one cotton-picking thing. I don't care if they offer a politician $1 million dollars in cash. The politician has the power to accept or reject it.
No matter what the lobbyist promises, it is the legislation's responsibility to determine how he votes.
A CONFIDENCE CONSPIRACY
Don't you see how the con game that is played on the people by the politicians? Those 545 human beings spend much of their energy convincing you that what they did is not their fault. They cooperate in this common con regardless of party.
What separates a politician from a normal human being is an excessive amount of gall. No normal human being would have the gall of Tip O'Neill, who stood up and criticized Ronald Reagan for creating deficits.
The president can only propose a budget. He cannot force the Congress to accept it. The Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land, gives sole responsibility to the House of Representatives for originating appropriations and taxes.
O'neill is the speaker of the House. He is the leader of the majority party. He and his fellow Democrats, not the president, can approve any budget they want. If the president vetos it, they can pass it over his veto.
REPLACE SCOUNDRELS
It seems inconceivable to me that a nation of 235 million cannot replace 545 people who stand convicted -- by present facts - of incompetence and irresponsibility.
I can't think of a single domestic problem, from an unfair tax code to defense overruns, that is not traceable directly to those 545 people.
When you fully grasp the plain truth that 545 people exercise power of the federal government, then it must follow that what exists is what they want to exist.
If the tax code is unfair, it's because they want it unfair. If the budget is in the red, it's because they want it in the red. If the Marines are in Lebanon, it's because they want them in Lebanon.
There are no insoluble government problems. Do not let these 545 people shift the blame to bureaucrats, whom they hire and whose jobs they can abolish; to lobbyists, whose gifts and advice they can reject; to regulators, to whom they give the power to regulate and from whom they can take it.
Above all, do not let them con you into the belief that there exist disembodied mystical forces like "the economy," "inflation" or "politics" that prevent them from doing what they take an oath to do.
Those 545 people and they alone are responsible. They and they alone have the power. They and they alone should be held accountable by the people who are their bosses - provided they have the gumption to manage their own employees.
This article was first published by the Orlando Sentinel Star newspaper
"Teabaggers and the gutless
"Teabaggers and the gutless GOP "leadership" that is letting a small minority of their membership hurt America."
Exactly. This isn't rhetoric. It's a fact.
All that's standing in the way of funding our government is John Boehner. As I understand it, he's essentially been kneecapped by the Tea Bags. If he does the correct and moral thing, he will lose his speakership.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-10-03/obama-says-boehner-must-end-pa…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2013/10/03/the-governmen…
Whatever happened to the
Whatever happened to the "buck stops here"? When speaking about leadership, Henry Ford said "Don't find fault, find a remedy" President Obama holds sole responsibility for the mess we find ourselves in. He has had 5 years to display some semblence of real leadership and has failed miserably, All those who stoop to nothing more than childish sexual innuendo and over the top rhetoric immediately discredit themselves as legitimate contributors to real discourse.
......Hands Jeff a new
......Hands Jeff a new keyboard with no sticky keys lol.
The Social Security
The Social Security Administration has an office in the Key Bank Building in Down town Buffalo. I pass by the help window every day on the way to my office in the same building. The window has been open everyday since the shut down went into effect.
exactly Kyle, trying to get
exactly Kyle, trying to get used to the new Surface Pro. Leads to a lot of duplicate clicks.
Do ya hate 8 yet, Jeff. I
Do ya hate 8 yet, Jeff. I hear its awful.
All of the above, and since
All of the above, and since we elected these powermongers, we have no one to blame but ourselves.
BTW, "shutdown" is this year's "fiscal cliff", a phrase that has been incessantly bantered about to the point of nausea.
And Sean. do you know what a real teabagger is? I thought you did. Are you bummed the GOP is using a term that applies to deviant homosexual acts? Seriously, it's an offensive term that is not appreciated.
Thanks Bud and Jeff, I was
Thanks Bud and Jeff, I was thinking along the same lines. I have no love for the Republicans or any sympathy for their internal problems, but using "Tea Bagger" was funny 2 years ago and just tedious now. It was however vulgar then and still is. Vulgarity reflects more on the one using it rather than the ones you are trying to insult.
I prefer 'tea-pot-hangers.'
I prefer 'tea-pot-hangers.'
http://www.nationalreview.com
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/360338/democrats-chose-shutdown-t…
This country is divided, on
This country is divided, on most of the issues facing the govt.. So why should our representatives be any different, they are a true reflection
of where this country is today.
This is nothing new, Our
This is nothing new, Our congress and executive throughout our history has been divided on a multitude of issues many of them that appeared just as grave at the time.
Alexander Hamilton was sued by his political opposition, involved in a torrid affair in another situation and final shot and killed by the Vice President Of the United states in a Duel;
In the midst of a civil war, Abraham Lincoln could not win re-nomination to his party for a second term and had to run on a third party win his second term as president.
Aaron Burr the third vice president was accused of treason for his desire to invade Mexico and impeached.
Andrew Jackson filled his cabinet with friends and family rather than qualified advisors
Andrew Johnson was impeached
Grover Cleveland almost drove this nation to bankruptcy in the 1800's
One congress passed a constitutional amendment AND CONVINCE 2/3RDS of the states to agree on prohibition which set our nation into a crime wave of bootlegging and vice crime
The list goes on, and on.
Regardless of what happens with the debt ceiling, our debt will be paid, it may mean the elimination of many government jobs and departments, but no president and no congress will allow our debts not to be paid, in the end the debt ceiling will be raised or re allocations of the budget. Either way, we are NOT in default until the actual bill isn't paid and in the end debt ceiling increase or not they will be.
All that said, the premise that we are in crisis and our government is going to hell and a hand basket has persisted almost since the day it was formed.
All said and done, The house has the constitutional authority NOT to fund Obamacare, even if a previous congress passed it into law. The Congress, and the house is part of congress has every bit the constitutional authority NOT to raise the Debt ceiling and force spending cuts instead. No matter how much political rhetoric, no matter how personally offended the President might feel. The fact is if you truly look at the constitution, the house is well within it's rights to vote NO, regardless of what any congress before has done, that is both the beauty and the peril of our constitution.
Bud and Dave, you are correct
Bud and Dave, you are correct in giving me a slap. The term I used is disrespectful, childish, and (most importantly) not funny.
I apologize.
And Bud, you made me laugh! I deserved that.
To my friends on the right,
To my friends on the right, just for clarification -- your team owns this one. The President was re-elected by more than 3 million votes last year. Like it or not, that is a referendum on the ACA. The SCOTUS also upheald the ACA. Therefore, the only way to change the law of the land is win the next one and if you control two branches of government legislate the change. For God sakes don't shut down the government furloughing 800,000 workers. Don't put miners in danger because the inspectors are off the job. Don't keep the American people away from the enjoyment of our national parks. And don't put a fragile economy in danger of reverting back to recession. You don't always get your way in a democracy. Holding the government hostage because you don't like a law is not a governing strategy.
OK what the hell is a SCOTUS?
OK what the hell is a SCOTUS? And why can't you people spell out something, instead of giving it an "initial's" name!! Too much too write or can't you spell all the words that is represents?? And there is NO "A" in the word "Upheld" ! Just sayin'..
We need less left and right,
We need less left and right, and more center focused people in Washington. We also need term limits, so these elitists don't become so entrenched and out of touch with reality. 2 term limit on congress, and make the President a 1 term, 6 year office.
And John, the acronym SCOTUS is for the Supreme Court of the United States.
YW, lol .....(jk)
Well, excuse me for the
Well, excuse me for the spelling error and the acronym confusion. I typed that comment on my small android phone. not easy. Jeesh.
I'm not taking sides on this
I'm not taking sides on this one, Lorie, but I would argue that the House of Representatives has the constitutional power to appropriate funds in whatever manner they vote on. They are not required to fund something just because it's law. I checked the "all of them" box because neither side is willing to chop up their special interest give-aways or pork projects to reduce the overall budget in order to afford The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA), commonly called the Affordable Care Act (ACA) or Obamacare (that's for John). Next will be the debt ceiling stand-off. The 2 party political system in Washington DC has led the nation straight into this either / or , all or nothing impasse time and time again. I'm with Bud, term limits and the end of career politicians. More and better ballot access, more open elections, more candidates from different parties and true independents.
Dave, the people in the house
Dave, the people in the house can also man up and take responsibility for their actions. This weak kneed response we hear from Cruz and the rest of the Tea Party is pathetic and transparent. Cruz did it, it was the plan the Tea Party ran on, they need to own it. If you don't have the votes, you can't pick the ball up and walk away. The Tea party is going to be held accountable for their actions in the end good or bad. Time for them to own it.
Well, Charlie he is very
Well, Charlie he is very popular in his state. If the so-called moderate republicans would cut out all the pork and special interest money thereby encouraging the democrats to do the same by embarrassment (if that's even possible), then Obamacare could be funded without incurring more debt. then they could campaign against it next year as Lorie says. But that won't happen, because as you might agree, there is hardly any difference between most republicans and democrats. This is the way most of them want it. Winners and losers, right versus left, lesser of 2 evils etc. Cruz and the Tea Party bunch are sort of different, but not quite enough for me. The real battle is the incredible amount of spending that continues to increase year after year. It has to be confronted. Everything that is currently shut-down, should probably be privatized for starters. Certain Federal Government departments need to be dissolved, and defense spending can easily be greatly reduced by stopping involvement in foreign wars. Term limits and a reduction in pay and perks for congressman and senators should be next. Obamacare is just a catalyst, or so I hope.
So yes, they should own it.
Dave, from what I understand
Dave, from what I understand progress on the budget was made and in the end they will be voting on a CR just north of the Ryan budget. At some point you have to stop playing politics and accept a win. You need to make yourself sound reasonable and go for the next win. Change is a gradual process, being stupid and going for too much too soon is a hard lesson Cruz and the rest of them are about to learn.
If Obamacare is truly a failure than that will become evident all by itself and those who supported it will be out of office. That's how the system works. It's time for the Tea Party to have some faith in the American people.
If a congressman was elected
If a congressman was elected by the people of his district on a promise to do everything in his power to fight/repeal Obamacare, what should he or she do? Keep the promise, or rollover for the President?
Charlie, members of the house
Charlie, members of the house as you know, are elected by their local constituencies, and are NOT there to comply with the people in the nation at large. You and others keep throwing the TEA PARTY out there as if if is a fringe group, to us here in WNY, the TEA PARTY is basically a fringe group, but in many of the 200 districts won by the republicans, yes the TEA PARTY had influence, but also every other voter in their district overwhelmingly in 2010 and maintained a significant majority of the house in 2012.
They are doing EXACTLY what the voters in their districts elected them to do, EXACTLY what they said they were going to do in both election cycles. We are a NATION OF STATES, not a NATION WHICH CONTAINS STATES. And no matter what the Rhetoric, Senator Cruz won his seat in Texas, Congressman Ryan in Wisconsin, Congresswoman Bachman in Minnesota and so on, All the generic polling about congress is meaningless, any criticism of a congressman from Kentucky is pointless as the ONLY voters these people are responsible to are those who vote in their respective States and Districts.
ALL OF THAT SAID, they are doing exactly what they said they would do when they ran, and exactly what the voters in their districts accepted when they elected them. All this reasoning that it was passed by one congress so it is sacred and because of that another congress should yield is ridiculous and not at all with out precedent, The congress elected in 1972 voted to financially support South Vietnam after we withdrew, only to have that funding denied by the congress elected in 1974.
Through out our history, that same scenario has played out over and over. That is how our constitution applies and NO CONGRESS can pass a law that is not subject to repeal by another congress. Only a constitutional amendment can make the ACA or the raising of the Debt limit binding on another congress, I am not at all certain that the ACA would survive a State to State vote on making the ACA an amendment, and since amendments must originate in the House, it is unlikely at this time that it would even come to that.
The Vitriol that many are crying about has been with us since the first congress and will be with us as long as we live under the constitution,
Exactly to my point and the
Exactly to my point and the reason for this thread. The Tea/Republican party is responsible for the shutdown. They ran on the idea of shutting the government down and did exactly what they planned to do. What they were elected to do. So we need to stop the coy responses to questions and the strange quest to find the responsible party. It's an insult to our intelligence to state anything other than the Tea Party shutdown the government. Time to man up.
I agree with you Charlie, own
I agree with you Charlie, own it and run with it. I think they realize they'll need to compromise somewhere and haven't figured out how to spin it. Which is why I don't like them in the end. They are still political apparatchiks. However, I can't agree with fighting small battles. It's always 1 step forward, 2 steps back. Sometime ago you said something about money and influence being a big part of the problem. No doubt about it.
Dave, money is the root of
Dave, money is the root of all evil. Political money and the idea that politics is a job has ruined our system.
A lot can be said for going
A lot can be said for going slow, being seen as polite and reasonable. Paul seems to be taking that course to me, even if he basically says the same thing as Cruz. That's the difference between a guy with a clue and Cruz.
And the 16th & 17th
And the 16th & 17th amendments
Dave you are so dead on with
Dave you are so dead on with regard to the 17th Amendment in particular. There is a direct correlation between the adoption of the 17th and the steady influx of political money after. People forget that SENATORS were intended in the constitution to represent the States, NOT the people directly.
Before the 17th, state legislatures would appoint Senators and that pretty much left the money out of the equation although one of the stated reasons by those that supported the amendment used the 'Buying of Seats' as one of the reasons to back it, since it has become all about the money, the exact opposite of it's intent.
That's true Mark. The 16th
That's true Mark. The 16th amendment has directly led to the behemoth size of the federal government
Charlie, they are all
Charlie, they are all responsible. Harry Reid and Obama refuse to negotiate under any Republican or Tea Party terms. Obama's job as President is to settle differences and to come up with solutions, not to be part of a school yard brawl. Look at what Clinton did during his time in office with a Republican Majority. He sat and talked but, Obama leaves to go golfing or on vacation or on some international expedition. He runs from the issue rather than figure it out. Clinton resolved issues with communition and open mindness.
The Republicans are doing as requested by a 2-1 margin of US Citizens, who want Obamacare/Affordable Care Act delayed and/or removed. Heck Obama has dodge the question six times about whether not if, he is so proud of his healthcare plan will he sign up and use it. Not to mention why is this plan only good for the American People and not the 545 Politicians that, are there to represent their fellow Americans? That is a red flag for most Americans. Obama's healthcare will only benefit a few Americans while the majority is forced to pay the bill. Even the ones that benefit will not always get the medical coverage they will need. Obama based his healthcare system on the European System in which most people are unhappy. Britain and Canada have their own systems but, those are not without flaws either.
Why is it so, hard for the Democrats and Obama to just delay and/or rewrite the healthcare plan with some "REAL THOUGHT and PLANNING?" It was rushed to appease the faithful Obama supporters. However, it was rushed with no real understanding. There are Americans out there who support the Affordable Care Act (ACA) but, not Obamacare. How is that possible? They are the same thing!
What it comes down to is
What it comes down to is whether it is a law or not, the American People have the right to challenge before, during or after a law has been passed. Since, we all have seen issues with this Obamacare, I think we are obligated to get real answers and real solutions. I am unhappy with the shutdown and I am effected by it but, I have to give thanks to John Boehner along with the Republicans, Tea Party members and even some Democrats who feel Obamacare should be delayed and looked over. Why some feel that, people do not have a right to challenge until the next election is puzzling.
Thinking Obama will give up
Thinking Obama will give up his signature achievement is just a failure of understanding. All the seas will dry up before that happens. You have to have the common sense not to promise your base something you could never deliver. The only surprise is that the Tea Party could have so little understanding of their nemesis. Now the country should feel sorry for the Tea Party's lack of long term planning? I hear a lot of hogwash about Obama won't deal. The Tea Party's Poor planning isn't his emergency. The Tea Party bit off too much and now they are in a pickle. Why should Obama deal, he's of the same political mindset. He has his enemies with their back against the wall and they are being pummeled.
You also need to believe the
You also need to believe the Tea Party truly wants to settle this, that would be naive. I believe they want the government to collapse, it's their self fulfilling prophecy.
Enemies? Really? This is one
Enemies? Really? This is one of the many problems with our political system. We should never use terms such as enemies in political discussion. We are all Americans. I do not see a responsible government at all. Enemy is something I expect at a high school brawl after a football game. Obamacare is poor planning and now alot of Americans are educating themselves on it. Obama and the rest of our government's job is to served the People in which all side are not conducting effectively. They are putting their own feelings ahead of ours. The ones who find fault with just the Republicans and Tea Party are not looking at the whole picture of the shutdown. You know I am a Democrat but, I find fault with all our knuckleheads. We need to make all our politicians answer for the failure of our government. We need to stop listening to the Obama Bull, whom we all know has redirected issue after issue with no real answers. We caught him in lie after lie only for another issue to come up to take focus of the lie and place somewhere else.
I do believe we need to set term limits for OUR Congress, Senate and President. Set it to a eight years one term Presidency since, it takes a minimum of eight years to see an economic plan take effect. This with no retirement or full medical coverage. For Congress and the Senate the same limit. New faces bring in new and realistic ideas. If they make a law, no exemption for them at all. If it is good for the "American People" it is good for them! We could come up with a proposal/plan in case our elected officials do not operate as we intended.
John that's our two party
John that's our two party mindset. Enemies... Have you not been listening to the speech that comes from these two camps?
As for us, I think we are saying the same things in different ways.
Oh yeah they all need to be
Oh yeah they all need to be limited to thirty days, per year for vacation. We need to let the American People vote on their pay raises and we could conducted that, during elections to save cost from setting up additional polling/voting stations. BTW, Congress and Senate could actually be two, four years terms. No retirement or full medical coverage. Our military men and women put their life on the line and are subject to alot of difference issues which affect their health in other countries. They do not get these benefits and the only ones they actually fight for is us.
Probably. Not sure who stated
Probably. Not sure who stated this above but, it is true. We as a people cannot agree ourselves so, our government reflects the same. The only problem is that, our people are not serving themselves. Our government is taking care of themselves with Golden Parachutes and exemptions from certain laws to protect themselves from known issues within those laws.
I am just tired of the whole political nonsense and wish people did not support such nonsense. I believe our society has become a society of taking and not giving. If, I do not have what Timmy has then I should be given it through my belief of entitlement and fairness. Aka, why should I work for it?
How come the Tea Party is
How come the Tea Party is tagged as an extreme group ..But the occupy wall street group was not..Where is the great occupy wall street groups..The Tea Party ,wither right or wrong is standing true to their beliefs.They ran for office and got elected....The so called Occupy Wall Street group who was praised by the left is no where to be found.What office did they run for....The government is not shut down as many would have us believe..85% of the government is at work....
Actually more than 85% Mark,
Actually more than 85% Mark, the Sec of Defense called back most of the DOD furloughed workers today.
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/article/20131005/NEWS05/310050016/Most-…
If we can't keep going with
If we can't keep going with as Mark showed over 85% who are on the job something is wrong...How dependent are we on this government?..We still have all our State ,county and local government workers on the job..Obama would have us all believe that these 15% who aren't on the job ,is going to bring the whole federal government down...Pure BS...They are called non essential for a reason..The people who are off the job are going to get full pay when they return..I don't understand this..They should be on layoff and collecting unemployment just like the rest of america who works in the private sector when their companies lay them off....
The last two posts sum up the
The last two posts sum up the real plan. There is no desire to end the shutdown or raise the debt ceiling. The political talking points are now, "it's not so bad". A government collapse is the real Tea Party plan. Hold on people, your going to get your wish.
Obamacare is funded as well.
I don't know about a
I don't know about a collapse, Charlie. Maybe if the tied to the hip of congress stock market takes a dive too. In any event a serious re- prioritizing of federal expenditure is surely called for.
"high school brawl" about
"high school brawl" about sums it up for those toads, John
There are two possible
There are two possible reasons for the shutdown.
1. The Tea Party was so naive it had no idea that Obama would never give up his signature achievement and promised something to their base they could never deliver.
2. A government detox. Collapse of the government was the Tea Party's ultimate goal. They dislike government and would rather live without it. They want to convince people they really don't need government.
I lean towards #2 because I can't believe they actual thought Obama would gut his legacy. Obamacare is funded now, this shutdown fails to kill it and only hurts the Tea Party politically.
Charlie, I don't recall any
Charlie, I don't recall any Republican running on the precept of shutting down the government. Several ran on repealing Obamacare. The two are mutually exclusive. They ran on debt reduction as well as repeal of ACA. We are about to run out of money and the ACA will certainly take us over the fiscal cliff and yet NO ONE is willing to ask the question or hold Obama responsible for the fact that we are about to exceed the debt ceiling AGAIN after 5 years of his "leadership". The shutdown is not a strategy, is is the natural consequence of the failure to not only reign in spending, but the reckless addition of it through the ACA. ACA was passed on straight party lines, Obama and the Dems own this shutdown 100%
Jeff we need to get past
Jeff we need to get past denial and come to terms with reality. Even a casual observer can see through those weak GOP talking points. Like I've said serval times, it's time for the Tea Party to own it. They all need to Stop the winking and nodding and own the grand plan. We all see the Tea party speeches and rallies, even us non party types watch tv. TP leadership can't say one thing to your party faithful and then another to the rest of us. We all have TVs and the internet. They are happy they shutdown the government and will drive us over the edge. They need to own it. Come clean and tell us their plans.
Charlie, you are correct, we
Charlie, you are correct, we need to get past the denial. Obama by default has the advantage of the bully pulpit as well as lapdog media outlets and uses both to perpetuate some of the most outrageous falsehoods on the American public. At this point he could hold a press conference to declare that the sky is green and it would not be challenged. 90% or better of Americans are working off of a "headline mentality". They read the headline, accept it on it's entirety, don't read the rest of the piece nor challenge any of it's assertions and then set their course. The scourge of the uninformed voter has reached an all time low and this administration is taking full advantage.
You know on that denial thing
You know on that denial thing and ownership thing Charlie.
"March 16, 2006, during the Bush administration, the Senate voted 52-48 to increase the debt limit. It seems like 48 Senators were not so concerned about the consequence of not raising the debt limit in 2006. But the real interesting fact is learned when you look at the detailed vote.
U.S. Senate Roll Call Votes 109th Congress – 2nd Session H.J.Res. 47
Of the 52 Senators voting to raise the debt limit, every one was a Republican. Of the 48 that voted against raising the debt limit, 3 were republicans and the rest were Democrats (and “Independents”)."
And
"On Dec 24, 2009, the Senate voted 60 to 39 to increase the debt limit again. The bill was entitled “Continued Financing of Government Operations”, but it was a debt limit increase bill. Click Here to see the text of the bill. It’s about 20 words and it increased the limit to $12.394T.
So, how did this vote go? The vote was 60 to 39. 59 Democrats/Independents (and 1 Republican) voted to increase the debt limit, and 38 Republicans (and 1 Democrat) voted not to increase the debt limit. See the results yourself."
It is all a SCAM on both sides, the party in power will want the debt limit preserved to maintain their pet programs, the party out of power will vote not to in an attempt to stop it, it isn't anything new.
The FACT is, the debt will be paid either by raising the limit or cutting programs, plain and simple. I say cut the programs again across the board, all the dire predictions are strictly political. Just like sequestration was supposed to cripple the economy, hmm how did that play out?
Referenced by http://www.redstate.com/dhancock/2011/05/09/the-debt-limit-scam/
Notable Senators voting against raising the debt limit in 2009
Akaka (D-HI)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Biden (D-DE)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Burns (R-MT)
Byrd (D-WV)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Carper (D-DE)
Clinton (D-NY)
Coburn (R-OK)
Conrad (D-ND)
Dayton (D-MN)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Durbin (D-IL)
Ensign (R-NV)
Feingold (D-WI)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Harkin (D-IA)
Inouye (D-HI)
Jeffords (I-VT)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murray (D-WA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Obama (D-IL)
Pryor (D-AR)
Reed (D-RI)
Reid (D-NV)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Salazar (D-CO)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Schumer (D-NY)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Wyden (D-OR)
It is amazing that most of the above are decrying the TEA PARTY and GOP for taking the same position that they did
Mark i agree on the doom and
Mark i agree on the doom and gloom over the sequestration ..Especially since all the sequestration was about cutting a % of future increases to government programs..Just like all the hype by calling this a government shut down..It's not..It is 15% of the government is not at work..
And if the debt ceiling is
And if the debt ceiling is not raised next week, the full faith and credit of the United States will not be destroyed either. Last year, I believe the federal government took in 2.440 trillion dollars which is 203 billion per month averaged. They should be able to pay the interest on the debt. They just can't lease a Range Rover and eat caviar and Kobe beef everyday anymore. A Chevy and chicken works for me, should for them too.
It's the spending,It's the spending,It's the spending,It's the spending,It's the spending,
It's the spending,It's the spending,It's the spending,It's the spending,It's the spending.
Your right Dave...They act
Your right Dave...They act like no money will coming into the government after the 15th..They will be taking in almost 230 billion a month..Interest on the debt is 20 billion a month...So there is no way they would default...But like you said maybe they won't be leasing range rovers and private planes..Or sending millions to country's who hate us.....
Do you think it may be
Do you think it may be spending Dave?
http://www.washingtonpost.com
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/10/04/absolutely-e…
Dave, you hit the nail on the
Dave, you hit the nail on the head. Rand Paul was pointing out on the Sunday morning shows that the government monthly revenue is around 250 billion a month and the interest on our debt is around 20 million. In other words there is no reasonable assumption that we would have to default. We simply need to cut spending.
Charlie, the real reason this
Charlie, the real reason this shutdown accorded is because, Obama and Reid are refusing to hear the majority of American's voice to delay/rewrite Obamacare. Debbie can argue that, the Obama and Reid have attempted to negotiate but, she is wrong. Obama is ignoring the majortiy of Americans and forcing his will onto them. The Republicans and Tea Party are actually representing the majority of Americans who want Obamacare stopped. For Obama to claim that, Republicans are holding Obamacare as a hostage is ridiculous.
Obama is clearly holding our jobs as hostage until, Obamacare is funded.
Sorry John, I don't debate
Sorry John, I don't debate talking points. I salute the sheep on both sides. Keep watching your crazy political entertainment news and continue beating the crap out of each other till the country falls apart. I feel nothing but disgrace and embarrassment for what all the talking heads have done to our country. You all are so convinced you can solve all our countries problems with your bag of focus group vetted one liners.
Real problems require working together and not show boating. Until political parties are outlawed and their leaders hung, we as a country will never prosper.