These signs are petulant and childish, just like Congressman Joe Wilson. These people cannot have this debate on intellectual grounds and are resorting to the sort of ugliness that should never come out in American politics.

No, I don't care what the "left" did to President Bush. What's happening now has no place in American politics.

I've had many intelligent debates with conservatives about Health Care Reform, they aren't the issue. However, kicking around a dead guy, personal attacks and shouting down others shows that these people have their hearts sown with hatred.

Shame on them.

This has been the "elephant in the room" (no pun intended) since the Palin rally's last fall. It's ugly and it's raw. Some of us thought that we were entering a post racial era after the historic election of our first African American President, but with every passing day and more coverage of rabid town hall meetings and now this hatefest in DC we are witnessing the ugly underbelly exposed for what it truly is. And it looks a lot like racism to me.

I am sad for our country. I am sad for the Republican Party. The moderates and sane members must be seething over the invasion of these nuts. I read an interesting book called "What's the Matter with Kansas" a couple years back and it is a chronicle of the fringe takeover in that particular state. The battle wasn't so much between dems and republicans, it was between moderate republicans and the far right wing. The author, Thomas Frank sees the bitter divide between moderate and conservative Kansas Republicans (what he labels "Mods" and "Cons") as an archetype for the future of politics in America, in which fiscal conservatism becomes the universal norm and political war is waged over a handful of hot button cultural issues.

When Joe Wilson yelled out -- "You lie" he was unknown and so was his belief system. From Maureen Dowd, columnist for the NY Times http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/13/opinion/13dowd.html?_r=1 The congressman, we learned, belonged to the Sons of Confederate Veterans, led a 2000 campaign to keep the Confederate flag waving above South Carolina’s state Capitol and denounced as a “smear” the true claim of a black woman that she was the daughter of Strom Thurmond, the ’48 segregationist candidate for president. Wilson clearly did not like being lectured and even rebuked by the brainy black president presiding over the majestic chamber. That spells racism anyway you try and spin it.

The last few weeks I have felt actual fear for where this is heading.

It could be that Jones really thinks Obama lied. While I don't think he should have done it, to me, it was the same as the Dems booing Bush.

Senator Robert Byrd (D) WV, was a member of the KKK. He also has a habit of still using the "N" word now and then, but since he is a senior "D", he seems to get a pass. It's clear that Obama's minister (until he wanted to get elected) was a racist.

As for being too far one way or the other, what about the left wing loons who destroyed the cells towers out West? Or burn cars on lots or burn homes being built?

There are nuts on both sides, I just want you to be fair and talk about the left ones also.

I have no problem talking about or critizing the fringe elements on either side. The lunatics on the far left in no way reflect my point of view.
I would like to believe that those, at that Washington rally and carrying the signs I posted, do not reflect the main stream Republican point of view.
The difference in idealogy is healthy. It is what makes our country great. Eventually, there is a meeting of the minds.
Those people, in Washington, weren't rallying against health care reform. They brought their hatred, bigotry, and racism to the front. Are they really carrying the message that those on the right want to be associated?

The difference is that the looney toons on the left get no credibility. The looney toons on the right are becoming a micro-movement, one that could have some very serious consequences on American society.

Robert Byrd has profoundly apologized for using that word and has repeatedly denounced the KKK. These people seem to be Hell bent on pursuing their agenda of racism and hate.

It's not be any means the disagreement with the President's policies that I object too, nor even is it their anger, it's the manner of which they are going about expressing it.

It's not be any means the disagreement with the President's policies that I object too, nor even is it their anger, it's the manner of which they are going about expressing it.

Yeah, but it got the attention of you and the country. This president doesn't have a great deal of refinement or humility. Everything is a huge handshake or photo op. He doesn't carry himself as his predecesors did. I believe you reap what you sow, and since this administration acts like a reality tv show, we are going to see more Jerry Springer like moments in the future!

Bud-How hasn't Obama "carried" himself like his predecessors?

Here's what I think, he's proposing policies that you disagree with and your upset about it. So instead of disagreeing with his policies you attack the man, bringing up his middle name in some desperate attempt to tie him with a former rouge dictator. I have to wonder why this is?

Why make fun of his ears?

Why kick around Ted Kennedy?

It's all pretty pathetic.

Dan,
Do you mean like the Dems did to Bush, year after year?

And don't forget the booing by them when he was speaking.

Dan, this guy is on TV more than any president I ever remeber. He basically utilizes ABC as his own network, and has held more news conferences, and speeches to the nation than any I remember in his first year. And I have been fortunate enough to be around twice as long as you have, so I have a little more 1st hand experience.

As far as physical attributes, I don't recall mocking our president for that. Are you sure you have the correct right leaning person?

And as for Senator Kennedy, while I did not share the same ideas, I had respect for him as a servant of the people. I wish more politicians would forego party lines and work together as one cohesive body, as he tried to do numerous times, often with positive results. Again, were you referring to me, or just generally to all us "looney tune" right wingnuts?

Posted by bud prevost on September 14, 2009 - 10:16am
.... He doesn't carry himself as his predecesors did.

Bud, say you don't mean that you want all of our presidents from this day forward to present themselves like President G.W. Bush?
I'm not talking politics,right now, just demeanor. Is that the model future presidents should emulate?

The President should communicate with the public, what's so wrong with him being on television?

I was referring to the signs in the photo album that Bea posted.

The fact that you bring up my age means that you have already lost the debate. You can't think of anything else to say.

No, I like the idea of Ike or Reagan. They were great men who carried themselves with great dignity. I even liked Clinton, to a certain degree, if we're not talking politics. He is much,much more intelligent than Obama or GW, and knew how to capture the attention of a room when he entered it.

Obama carries himself with great dignity as well, even when he was so rudely interrupted by that "representative" from South Carolina, he didn't even miss a beat and continued on with the speech with class.

Daniel, it isn't about winning or losing. It's about the magnitude of voting. That was the original thought here. and Bring up age, because I've been talking politics since I was 7 years old, and I knew Nixon was running against McGovern, and my grandpa and uncle got into a fist fight over it. It's intrigued me ever since.

And as far as "communicating" with the people, I'd like to see him try without the aid of a teleprompter. And without worrying if Aunt Nancy or Uncle Harry will be mad if he speaks his mind.

Bud-Obama has had many press conferences, at some point, the 'prompter goes off and the questioning begins. He has done so many times since the campaign. Saying that he's doing a bad job because he's "on television all the time" or making some claim about "dignity" with no evidence is absurd.

I still don't think that many on the right have gotten over the fact that Obama won with a pretty decent majority and that the House and Senate are solidly Dem. This is a progressive nation.

The "magnitude of voting" is not relevant to the current discussion.

Dan, as I said, wait till 2010 and see how many changes are made in Congress.
Sorry I'm not as smart as you are. I'll try to avoid any confrontations going forward, since you know everything and I know nothing.
Us "whigs" are a stupid bunch

1,000,000 black people march on Washington to show solidarity amongst the black community and to protest the generalized image of black people in America - WHILE, at the same time, encouraging all black people that can not attend the million man march to stay home from work, school, etc. to help reinforce how important black people are to our society - that's called equality, progress and fair.

20,000 conservatives (estimates are .4% black involvement), show up to demand government accountability to American citizens, allegiance to the constitution and the country, and to promote conservatism and that's racism? WOW - somebody really needs to update wikipedia 'cuz it has racism defined all wrong.

I'm sure glad the liberals are around to help us understand these complex issues.

Posted by Sean Valdes on September 14, 2009 - 2:43pm
20,000 conservatives (estimates are .4% black involvement), show up to demand government accountability to American citizens, allegiance to the constitution and the country, and to promote conservatism and that's racism? WOW - somebody really needs to update wikipedia 'cuz it has racism defined all wrong.

Sean,
You saw nothing racist in these posters, and this was just the tip of the iceberg.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/42406957@N04/sets/72157622225019439
This is what promoting conservatism is all about?

Honestly Bea - I'm okay with the signs. Every one of the signs is true - his family's direct heritage is Kenya; I can see comparing him to a dictator; he's as close to a socialist without being a socialist as you can get; I'm not really sure what the Indian picture is about; the birth certificate thing is laughable, but not racist; comparing his name to Osama bin Laden is a dumb sign, but not racist; and I'm okay with anything bad happening to Pelosi - I just don't like her.

Bea, you do realize that the signs are to call attention to the carrier mostly, and to make people notice their particular issue, secondly? It works. It's just basic shock value. Most of the signs are in poor taste to say the least, but they got you fired up didn't they?

They are in poor taste.
This isn't a party issue. There are people from all spectrums of the political scene who blanched at the outright racism and bigotry.
Is this promoting what conservatism is all about? I have good friends who are staunch conservatives who will say it isn't.
Many of those signs promote lies already dispelled. Yet, because we have the right of free expression, they are allowed to perpetuate what we already know isn't true.

I forgot to add that it also got their pictures up on the internet, so all their buddies back home can see them.

400 times more death threats than any other President.

This is NOT OK!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/5...

At least they have not printed a book or made a movie on how to kill him, like they did Bush, right?

I agree with Lorie on the death threats - there is NO need to turn to violence to solve our problems. 2010 we'll have our chance to change things - it's up to us to make things right again.

I didn't vote for Bush either time. i was vehemently opposed to the Iraq War at it's inception. I followed just about all the news stories and blogs. Never did I hear about any book. I'm not saying I don't believe you, but a link would be helpful. There are now three Democrats in this conversation that reject the violent, fringe left wing. We don't allow them a platform nor a place at our table. They are not relevant.

But.....these folks have invaded the Republican Party and here's your spokespeople up close and personal.

Lorie,
Try "The Assissination of George Bush", buy a guy named Varon Sharma

There is also the video game, were you kill George Bush, created by W. Bilal, who is an assistant professor at New York University’s Tische School for the Arts.

Just to show, nuts on both sides.

John,

You need to give specific examples. You throw a lot of claims out there without providing proof. This is the Internet age. Instead of regurgitating what you hear on TV, the radio or other sources, do a little research. If you have enough time to make this many comments, you have the time to do a little research and add more thought to your comment.

You stated in multiple comments here that the Dems booed Bush. I'm assuming you are talking about the State of the Union, when in response to something Bush said, the Dems booed him. That's no different than what the Republicans have done and do to a Democratic president.

Booing is one thing. Shouting out and calling the president a liar? A little extreme. That would be extreme for anyone. Even a Democrat.

There are "loons" on both sides. But using threatening dialogue towards the President of the United States is unacceptable. I don't care who is doing it. If you want to make this a balancing act and play this game by saying that we should talk about both sides, tough. When the President is being threatened, you should have the guts to stand up and call these people on it. Don't turn this around and say, basically, "well, you guys do it too." We don't.

These aren't necessarily Republicans either. These are extreme right-wingers who think Republicans are too weak. They want to eliminate as much government as they can. That is their goal. It is more of a extreme libertarian way of thinking.

This isn't patriotic. Trying to scare the president and those who support him isn't patriotic.

John,

Here you go: http://www.varonbksharma.com/reviewsonthebook.htm

The book you speak of by Varon Sharma? It's fiction. It isn't a "how-to" guide or anything like that. It's a work of fiction. Kind of like the many Hollywood movies that have shown the assassination of presidents and other important figures.

Books and video games aren't the equivalent of people protesting in the nation's capital (not too far from the White House) with signs and shouts that are borderline threats. We are talking about a very different beast here.

My point is that the left has also been doing this stuff for years.

The rally this weekend had nuts, like all rallies do. But unlike many of the rallies by the left, this was peaceful. No fights with the police, no cars turned over or fires started.

In fact, except for a few stupid people with stupid signs, the left could take lessons on good rally behavior from this one.

"My point is that the left has also been doing this stuff for years."

That's weak John. Real weak. There are activists, extremists, rebels, etc. on all sides. This isn't an anti-war rally (or a pro-war rally). Displaying swastikas, walking around with signs that say "Bury Obamacare with Kennedy" and other questionable slogans and symbols isn't what we need in our debates. If you find it okay because, in your mind, everyone does it, then I think you have a real problem.

"The rally this weekend had nuts, like all rallies do. But unlike many of the rallies by the left, this was peaceful. No fights with the police, no cars turned over or fires started."

Your definition of peaceful is interesting. I don't find anything peaceful about what occurred over the weekend. And I'm glad you insinuated that the left's rallies involve fights with police, overturned cars and fires. So much for your shameless attempts at being balanced.

"In fact, except for a few stupid people with stupid signs, the left could take lessons on good rally behavior from this one."

There it is. You were trying to be a diplomat and play to both sides, but it was only a matter of time before your true colors showed.

Just say it John: You support the efforts of those who rallied on Saturday.

John-Which liberal rally ever turned out to be violent?

This rally had more hatred for Obama than the left ever had for President Bush. We never questioned whether he was an American citizen, we never had signs that said "Buy the War with Reagan" after he died. We never shouted "you lie" at the President.

The right-wing in this country has a clear lack of class and manners.

John! This author is from Mumbai. He isn't associated with the left. This is the first I have every heard of him. You are reaching around the world to make a point that just doesn't hold water.

And for your information -- a few of us went to a vigil -- a vigil. With candles and prayers. It was peaceful in every respect. Not a nut in the bunch. No overturned cars and no tear gas needed. Not even a police presence. The other "leftist" activism that I participated in earlier in the summer was faith based -- priests, nuns, rabbi's and ministers. At both these actions there wasn't as much as a sign calling out the other side. No down with Limbaugh, no anti Glen Beck. I can assure you no violence there either. If you want to go back to the unrest on the left in any great numbers you'll have to go back 40 years to the Viet Nam protests. Please don't count the liberal fringe anarchists -- they are not accepted in our ranks.

John, did you read this "how to" book? If so, did you understand it was fiction? Robert beat me to posting the URL.

Posted by Robert Harding on September 14, 2009 - 9:57pm Here you go: http://www.varonbksharma.com/reviewsonthebook.htm

The book you speak of by Varon Sharma? It's fiction. It isn't a "how-to" guide or anything like that. It's a work of fiction. Kind of like the many Hollywood movies that have shown the assassination of presidents and other important figures.

Sean, I'm glad you agree that the death threats are a problem, but what do you perceive is the reason for the increase? Could town hall's where people show up packing and protests in DC where signs read "WE LEFT OUR GUNS HOME - THIS TIME" be contributing? These people, from some that I listened to on the video and the group I had direct contact with at Massa's town hall, are whipped into a frenzy. The common thread is the hatred they feel for Obama. Many are very ill informed (not all of them, mind you). It isn't health care, it is delegitimizing Obama on EVERYTHING. One protester expounded that Obama was more dangerous than Osama bin Laden.

With reduction in man hours for the Secret Service, and a threat increase by this magnitude I am seriously concerned for Obama's safety.

I feel that it's up to the base of the Republican Party to put their fringe in check by dousing the flames of hatred -- as John McCain did at one of his rally's last year when the unkempt woman proclaimed that she didn't trust Obama, that he was an Arab. http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/v-print/story/53791.html
For the safety of the duly elected commander in chief they owe this country that much.