That just raises more questions, like should ANY animal be kept in captivity? Are we going to start questioning the practices at zoos and aquariums now?
Overbearing no votes on this. I think this is where animal rights activists step over the line, shooting themselves in the foot. Let me explain.
In order to further our understanding and exposure to animals that most of us would never see we have to have zoos and aquariums. Plus these places are where we study animals, how many wild animal's lives have been saved from studies done by vets and zoologists.
Another thing these activists don't consider is that dolphins for example, do seek and associate with people in the wild. I myself was approached by a dolphin when diving in Florida off the John Pennlecamp Reef Protection area. It apparently had been hooked accidentally just behind it's dorsal fin on its back. It kept stopping me nudging me and rubbing that spot on my arm. It finally settled in front of me, when I found a patch of sand to kneel on the bottom. I took my glove off and just removed the lure and the 10 ft of line the had cut about a half inch into the skin in spots.
From what the dive boat operator told me, he and several other dive operators have pod of dolphins that interact with divers now in that area, seeking out divers when they have minor discomforts or issues like that. They also play w divers too. Taking things from them and playing underwater catch, but always returning the item.
But a lot of these dolphins, whales and other marine creatures end up in aquariums because of injuries and issues where they were in danger. Taking captivity out of the picture leaves us with a wall where we can't help these creatures anymore, or gain more knowledge of the to help if something down the line begins to strike them down disease wise. It would make the activists themselves outlaws if they help remove nets or ropes and lines from a sick dolphin that needs time out of the wild to recover.
My alternate solution.....take those animals who don't thrive in captivity out, they have enclosures that are out in the open in bays and such. enclosures that could be easily escaped if the subject wanted to or take them out into open ocean and see if they stay or go. I know that in the navy dolphins have been trained to do jobs we cant, they can locate mines and other objects and even assist in the retrieval. They make the choice to participate and can take off if they so desire but they bond with their trainers and are like k9 officers, they have independence but are trained to do a job and do it well and enjoy the bond they have with their partner.
Maybe that might be considered before just saying No that they shouldn't be in captivity.
Many marine mammals have complicated social patterns that cannot be mimicked in captivity. SeaWorld does do a lot of good for marine animals, they rescue beached whales, stranded seals, and damaged dolphins. However, the holding magnificent, intelligent animals in the equivalent of bathtubs their whole lives is horrible.
Chelsea I can relate to your comment but I have one issue, the enclosures aren't bathtubs, that generalization is very disingenuous at best.
As a comparison, lets relate this to an animal almost everyone can relate to. Man.
We have the choice to live wherever we want with little restriction (physically). Some of us prefer cities some of us prefer wide open spaces. Now in each we get what we need, either by working to get money to buy those needs like in an urban setting. Or by working the land and providing for our needs like in a truly pioneering like setting.
A child in both circumstances has an equal chance to grow and propsper into an adult. There are differences that can be argued, ready medical care in urban vs less ready medical care in pioneering setting. Forced socialization in urban settings vs choice of whom to socialize with in pioneering setting and so on, you get the picture.
Most of the whales and dolphins in the wild we could agree are in a pioneering setting. Now take a young adult of about 21 yrs of age. Removing him from the pioneering setting and plop him down in an urban setting, say downtown Rochester. He will have all sorts of problems, now it doesn't matter if he was removed from his home setting because of illness, getting lost or being kidnapped. But if he adusts to the setting he is in he will lose some connection to what he grew up in. Something that requires hardship to get back into should he return, easier if his family is found and placed with them but not so much otherwise.
Its the same with these, now the whales that killed trainers, were they captivity bred or removed from the wild? Are the behaviors that led to the killing of the trainer, learned or instinctive. All these questions need to be answered fairly before regulatory steps taken. As we all have learned once a regulation is established and set into place they are extremely difficult to remove.
Whales and dolphins don't have it so horrible as your last sentence says, the idea of open enclosures at sea or in bays I think is an excellent alternative. A vacation from the aquarium in a open environment like they would live in. Retirement, vacation from home aquarium or just maybe a new environment to study instinctive vs learned habits either way it seems a reasonable alternative. But just like a human being that lived in a mansion all his life ( in other words like a hermit).... you take him out and set him into Pleasantville USA with a home and job and everything he needs, he isn't going to just thrive and succeed, it could be almost as horrible experience as we would consider being a hermit to be. You know what I mean?
That just raises more
That just raises more questions, like should ANY animal be kept in captivity? Are we going to start questioning the practices at zoos and aquariums now?
Overbearing no votes on this.
Overbearing no votes on this. I think this is where animal rights activists step over the line, shooting themselves in the foot. Let me explain.
In order to further our understanding and exposure to animals that most of us would never see we have to have zoos and aquariums. Plus these places are where we study animals, how many wild animal's lives have been saved from studies done by vets and zoologists.
Another thing these activists don't consider is that dolphins for example, do seek and associate with people in the wild. I myself was approached by a dolphin when diving in Florida off the John Pennlecamp Reef Protection area. It apparently had been hooked accidentally just behind it's dorsal fin on its back. It kept stopping me nudging me and rubbing that spot on my arm. It finally settled in front of me, when I found a patch of sand to kneel on the bottom. I took my glove off and just removed the lure and the 10 ft of line the had cut about a half inch into the skin in spots.
From what the dive boat operator told me, he and several other dive operators have pod of dolphins that interact with divers now in that area, seeking out divers when they have minor discomforts or issues like that. They also play w divers too. Taking things from them and playing underwater catch, but always returning the item.
But a lot of these dolphins, whales and other marine creatures end up in aquariums because of injuries and issues where they were in danger. Taking captivity out of the picture leaves us with a wall where we can't help these creatures anymore, or gain more knowledge of the to help if something down the line begins to strike them down disease wise. It would make the activists themselves outlaws if they help remove nets or ropes and lines from a sick dolphin that needs time out of the wild to recover.
My alternate solution.....take those animals who don't thrive in captivity out, they have enclosures that are out in the open in bays and such. enclosures that could be easily escaped if the subject wanted to or take them out into open ocean and see if they stay or go. I know that in the navy dolphins have been trained to do jobs we cant, they can locate mines and other objects and even assist in the retrieval. They make the choice to participate and can take off if they so desire but they bond with their trainers and are like k9 officers, they have independence but are trained to do a job and do it well and enjoy the bond they have with their partner.
Maybe that might be considered before just saying No that they shouldn't be in captivity.
It's a great question with
It's a great question with some (local) current events. Right now Marineland is being investigated/accused of mistreating their lone killer whale (http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2012/10/18/marineland_killer_whale_b…). There is also a current documentary about killer whales who have killed trainers, specifically ones at SeaWorld (http://blackfishmovie.com/).
Many marine mammals have complicated social patterns that cannot be mimicked in captivity. SeaWorld does do a lot of good for marine animals, they rescue beached whales, stranded seals, and damaged dolphins. However, the holding magnificent, intelligent animals in the equivalent of bathtubs their whole lives is horrible.
Chelsea I can relate to your
Chelsea I can relate to your comment but I have one issue, the enclosures aren't bathtubs, that generalization is very disingenuous at best.
As a comparison, lets relate this to an animal almost everyone can relate to. Man.
We have the choice to live wherever we want with little restriction (physically). Some of us prefer cities some of us prefer wide open spaces. Now in each we get what we need, either by working to get money to buy those needs like in an urban setting. Or by working the land and providing for our needs like in a truly pioneering like setting.
A child in both circumstances has an equal chance to grow and propsper into an adult. There are differences that can be argued, ready medical care in urban vs less ready medical care in pioneering setting. Forced socialization in urban settings vs choice of whom to socialize with in pioneering setting and so on, you get the picture.
Most of the whales and dolphins in the wild we could agree are in a pioneering setting. Now take a young adult of about 21 yrs of age. Removing him from the pioneering setting and plop him down in an urban setting, say downtown Rochester. He will have all sorts of problems, now it doesn't matter if he was removed from his home setting because of illness, getting lost or being kidnapped. But if he adusts to the setting he is in he will lose some connection to what he grew up in. Something that requires hardship to get back into should he return, easier if his family is found and placed with them but not so much otherwise.
Its the same with these, now the whales that killed trainers, were they captivity bred or removed from the wild? Are the behaviors that led to the killing of the trainer, learned or instinctive. All these questions need to be answered fairly before regulatory steps taken. As we all have learned once a regulation is established and set into place they are extremely difficult to remove.
Whales and dolphins don't have it so horrible as your last sentence says, the idea of open enclosures at sea or in bays I think is an excellent alternative. A vacation from the aquarium in a open environment like they would live in. Retirement, vacation from home aquarium or just maybe a new environment to study instinctive vs learned habits either way it seems a reasonable alternative. But just like a human being that lived in a mansion all his life ( in other words like a hermit).... you take him out and set him into Pleasantville USA with a home and job and everything he needs, he isn't going to just thrive and succeed, it could be almost as horrible experience as we would consider being a hermit to be. You know what I mean?