Ok, Now fellow Batavians. Make sure it is spent on what it was intended for.
Its time people.. This is ALOT of money!! and Im about sick, of grants, stimulus, our city has been given, dissapearing, in my opinion. Make sure this money isnt put into the general fund, to pay off the firefighters either.
WE HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW

P.S. While Bank St could use a face lift,
there are alot of heavily used streets,
that need help too. Like Vine St.

Ok so if I read the above correctly the money for this particular project is from a NY program that is funded by the federal government.

How much of the grant is going to government workers and bureaucrats that administer the program? Why can't the federal government just send the money to Batavia? Bank Street is not a state route nor a federal interstate highway. Why is the state involved at all?

This is one of the 7 projects we applied for stimulus money for so, no there isn’t a needier place for repairs in the city.

Karen, could you please tell me a specific grant or stimulus money that went missing in the city? What exactly are we going to “rise up” for?

Maybe I’m too sensitive but, I take offence to your constant remarks insinuating that my personal friends would be stealing or hiding money. Remember that those are the same people who put in extra hours without overtime pay to go ahead and dig for this money. All while taking shots from people on this website saying we would never get a return on our investment for the design money we put up.

You aren't too sensitive, Charlie. You and others have good reason to be bothered.

I don't work for the city in any capacity and I find Karen's remarks a bit offensive.

Sir, I comment out of frustration at the fact that out city leader, will not comment on issues, that the people have a right to know about. I comment out of frustration at the fact that the ambulance deal in my opinion was uneeded, and I question the motives behind it. I question the paranoia that some of you display. I comment on the articles on the Batavian, as they raise doubt in all of us, as to how our city leaders are spending our stimulus, and grant money. I comment at the lack of support the city shows you, as it speaks volumes. I comment about the "Pork Projects" that seem to have an endless stream of money thrown at them, while other thing that need to be done, are put to the backburner. I comment because of the things I hear from citizens in Batavia who have had enough. I comment because of the secrety you and our city leader, display every time you get together. Shouldnt you be sharing your thoughts with the others in council and that attend the meetings? I also dont like the fact that you vote things in so quick, as to not give the people time to react, or say no to them. I comment out of frustration at the fact that in a financial crisis, that we are all struggling with,our city manager, and a few others would have the nuts to give themselves a raise. I could go on and on, but I wont. You can call me whatever you want, but I comment from my Gut, and my intuition. I have always been outspoken, I'm really sorry if it offends you.

Charlie,
I have no problem with that part of Bank Street being fixed, but to say there is no street in more need is not true.

My own street has not even been repaved in 45-50 years and is in need of repair.

Sorry John, we only had enough money to apply for the 7 worst streets in the city.

Charlie,
Can you tell us what streets those are? And also, I have noticed that sidewalks on Hutchins and Liberty Sts. have had big white X's on them since March. What's with those?

That’s the same story as when we were told that the sidewalks on Washington needed to be replaced first because they could not find other sidewalks in worse shape. Even you pointed out the lie in that.

It was just that Washington was a higher priority, but walks all around town were in worse shape.

I'll agree you put in for 7 streets, highly used, that needed repair. But not that they were the worse ones.

Every year when they flush the hydrants on our street, the DPW has to be called to replace parts of the street that get washed away. Bet you don't have to do that on Bank.

After 45-50 years of no repair, I would be glad to see you take another look at mine.

You have no argument from me John. Your street is trash. There is a lot of catch up work to do in the city. Let’s hope the new Council keeps infrastructure repair a priority.

Howard, I know you posted a link to the streets we applied for, maybe you could post that link, I can’t seem to find it.

Lucille, sounds like someone was marking them for repairs. Are they cracked or heaved up?

Peter had a great point that got lost in the thread. How much more money could Batavia have at it's disposal if it didn't have to filter through so much bureaucracy. Excellent point, Red tape = lost $$$. I know it is not a new problem, but continually shedding light on it can't hurt.

Jeff, if we were allowed to direct our own state tax money to the things we determined where our primary concerns we would be a lot better off.

Jeff, it is a good question, but let's not forget this is all borrowed money by the Feds. The stimulus is deficit spending.

That said, I've no qualms with the city getting as much stimulus money as it can. The money is going to be spent. As much as possible, it might as well be spent in our neck of the woods.

As for cutting the inefficiency, that would only come if the funds were raised locally (read, more taxes). That seems impractical so long as the Federal and State governments keep taking so much of our paychecks.

So while Peter raises a good question, I don't see any more practical way to move forward.

Unless you all want to join me in supporting a constitutional amendment to make it illegal for the Feds and States to tax, and only local governments can tax (sending excess funds upstream instead of downstream as it is now).

Charlie, I can't find such a post either. I also can't recall it.

Karen wrote: "Im about sick, of grants, stimulus, our city has been given, dissapearing. Make sure this money isnt put into the general fund, to pay off the firefighters either."

Charlie wrote: "Karen, could you please tell me a specific grant or stimulus money that went missing in the city?"

Karen, still waiting for an answer to that question. If you can point to a specific State or Federal grant that didn't go its intended project, please let us know. I'll FOIL the related documents if you can provide some indication of what I should be looking for. Or you can FOIL them and report your findings here.

You won’t have to FOIL it; I’ll go down to city hall and get it myself.

OMG what about Summit Street? I would hate to be in a metro or rural ambulance and have to have a needle in my arm while they are flying down Summmit Street to save my life. OMG Redfield parkway wasnt that bad. Why are higher tax areas better taken care of? OMG

Karen Yay!!!thumbs up from me to you!

From the Daily News February 10, 2009

Council gambles with VLT money - The plan: Spend aid to receive aid by Joanne Beck

"The projects include waterline replacement on Vine Street and street rehabilitation; sanitary sewer replacement and rehab on North and Ross streets; road resurfacing, sewer rehab and waterline replacement on Bank Street; sanitary sewer rehab on Union Street and watermain replacement and road resurfacing on Roosevelt Avenue. "

This towns in tatters!


Sha dooby.

Thank You Mary. As for the proof Howard, it is not my job to take a look at the books, and spending. That would be the job of an Auditor. Some things just come out in the laundry Howard. Just for the record, I only came out with this after reading your post about City secrecy. Maybe you would also like to leak the name of your informant. Its all here-say, and I dont like some use names.

Karen, it's a pretty simple matter. If you're going to make the accusation, you MUST know of specific instances. If these engineers were credible and told you a story you believed, they must have provided specifics, such as when and what. What are the specifics? Just tell me. Charlie said he'll get us the documents, or I'll FOIL them. Just tell us where to look.

It's hearsay until you provide specifics that can be verified. Otherwise, it's just gossip.

Charlie, VLT rang a bell -- searched for that. Here's the round up post Philip did back then.

If that is the grounds for accusing people of miss appropriating money and questioning my character, when is this type of thing considered libel?

I know that most of the city reads this site and doesn’t even bother with the craziness but, it is not humanly possible to shout over the top of the fray. Maybe my experiment of trying to be open with people by answering their questions on this web site should be deemed a failure. No matter how much I try, there are still people who would rather insult and fan the flames of these outright lies. I’m at my end at this point. Let this be a lesson for the next person who fills my seat.

Yes Charlie they are cracked, heaved up, the street corners are marked and it is all the way down both streets towards Jackson School

Karen-It is the job of all citizens to "look at the books" and critically examine their own government.

If your going to make such a serious accusation (one of possibly criminal behavior), then you should have some proof.

No, Libel is when you use names of people, and when you slander someones charecter directly, and when the things you state are untrue. Not opinions, or I thinks. I speak in general, and blogg my opinions, just like evryone else. Do what you have to, as I am ready to defend my opinion, and I thinks. I will do what I have to as well. Daniel, I am just one of those citizens who blogg on the Batavian.

Karen,
This is the time for you to step up to the plate. Without the facts, then no one can rebut.
You have placed yourself on a precarious perch.
* You post that there are things you bring up that you admit you have little knowledge.
* You tell us that you find it 'fun' to get a rise out of people.
* You also aren't part of the process that brings local people into local government, but you find the debates amusing.
If you know something that is important to the well being of our local economy and our local government, then it is time to let the cat out of the bag.
Charlie and I have had our moments, but one thing I believe is that he will honestly answer your questions.
Why not give him a chance?

I agree with Bea, what appears to happening here is purely and simply smear. Karen, if you have no evidence to prove that there has been inappropriate behavior involving Mr. Mallow than just admit that you were wrong, I'm sure that he would accept an apology.

If you do, then let us see it.

And don't forget that Charlie is a public servant getting paid very little for all of the abuse he takes. While I don't always agree with him - I believe he is an honest man who wants what is best for this city.

I just dont like that they make decisions for us, and dont bother to ask the people what they want. Do they ever really consider what the people in this town want?? Again, my opinions were fueled by Howards article. It made me think,"geez maybe my thoughts are correct". OMG maybe the city is up to no good. May I remind you this all started with HIM making fun of the people at Tops, stating their suspicions to me, and alot of others, before the ambulance thing. My opinions are based on what I have read and been told.
"Maybe my experiment of trying to be open with people by answering their questions on this web site should be deemed a failure".
This was an experiment?? Then I guess I was just a victim.

Howard, your constitutional amendment idea is interesting but I would want to look at every other option before tampering with the Constitution.

While we are on the topic of Road Repair, what is to become of the Ellicott Street railroad crossing?

Oh and if opening yourself up to your constituents is an experiment, then you shouldn't have been elected in the first place.

Posted by Karen Miconi on August 31, 2009 - 12:21pm
I just dont like that they make decisions for us, and dont bother to ask the people what they want.

Not liking something and stating that you have knowledge of misappropriations of funds are two different things.

They do ask you what you want, but remember you don't vote. There is more to the ballot than the people seeking election. There are propositions. If you haven't voted for or against them then you can't complain that you weren't asked.

As for the amendment. I support the Fair Tax. It is a much smaller step towards the right direction then completely reversing the money flow in government.

Your right Bea, so if my bloggs dont matter then Howard take me off the site for good. Im sure there are going to be a few happy people who will be relieved. Its fine with me. It manipulates all my time anyway. I have copied all my bloggs, for legal purposes, so Im ready Howard. Give me the axe please.

Karen, please don't use my article to justify unsubstantiated accusations. What I offered was based on a specific incident and I provide specific criticism. It wasn't just some general smear. I have what I believe is a legitimate concern about a specific item. I think the city could be more open with its communication, but I have no reason to believe there is widespread malfeasance, which is the charge you are making.

It's a serious charge. I think Bea put it well. If you're going to make such charges, you better be able to back them up. It's irresponsible to make such broad brush charges in a public forum and not be able to back them up with at least enough fact to allow other people to investigate the charges.

Trying to bring people together to discuss issues toward a hoped for eventual better community isn't a game. If you're going to throw out serious allegations that you can't substantiate, don't be surprised when you get challenged. Not that I'm not -- obviously -- capable of making my own mistakes, but I think we all want to move beyond this kind of game playing.

Well, Jeff, how else do we ban the Federal government from levying and collecting taxes?

I realize amendment is a serious step, but it is one the Founders clearly intended as an option.

Of course, it's also a total fantasy, but I sometimes sit around and muse -- what would the world like if true decentralization became reality? How would we make that work? What would be the benefits, what would be the drawbacks?

Agreed Howard, but Im not playing a game, I am very serious, and just blogging my opinion, and here-say things I have been told. Like you I wont devolge my sources. Im just a little more outspoken than others. I am very passionate,about my beliefs, and say things sometimes that others wont. I havent used names, and again have just blogged my suspicions, and opinions. To you, I am sorry that I am such a handful. Maybe you could take me off, as I cant find how to do it myself.
Please Howard do it now for me.

Posted by Peter O'Brien on August 31, 2009 - 12:29pm
As for the amendment. I support the Fair Tax.

The Fair Tax plan will exempt sales taxes on all income up to the poverty level. Taxpayers would receive a "prebate," calculated to be about $5,600 annually.
The Treasury Department estimates that the prebate program would cost between $600 billion and $700 billion annually, making it the largest category of federal spending.
Americans for Fair Taxation disputes the Treasury Department numbers, claiming that the actual
cost would be closer to $485 billion per year.

Who Really Pays?


With the prebate program in effect, those earning less than $15,000 per year would see
their share of the federal tax burden drop from -0.7 percent to -6.3 percent. Of course,
if the poorest Americans are paying less under the FairTax plan, then someone else pays more.
As it turns out, according to the Treasury Department,
“someone else” is everybody earning between $15,000 and $200,000 per year.


Isn't that exactly what you are fighting, Peter? Unless you are making over $200,000 a year, you would
be contributing to the poorest in our nation...you know, those people for whom you have no sympathy.

We can go with the fair tax Peter,which i am for..but unless they decrease spending it is all for nothing,because they will just keep raising the rates we pay with a Fair Tax..When you see spending go down from one year to the next then you will be going in the right direction..I don't agree with the way they tax property..Why should i pay more just because someone says my property is worth more than yours..Divide it equally..If there are 2000 houses in Batavia then they should all pay the same..Get rid of all these tax exempt properties also...I thought we were all in this together..

Everyone would get the prebate Bea. And paying taxes would become voluntary. No one would be forced to pay any taxes. The taxes on life's necessities are counter by the prebate. So only spending done because you want something more than you need it taxed.

Earnings don't matter at all to the fair tax. You get to keep everything you earn because there are no payroll taxes.

The prebate is just that, a rebate that comes before you spend the tax money. If the people choosing to live at the poverty level only spend that much money, then those people and the government are just passing the cash back and forth and no one is paying them anything.

Mark, if they raise the rate of the fair tax that is our fault. And they would have to do so on every item purchased in America. Hopefully the people wouldn't stand for that.

And the government will get more in taxes because the economy is predicted to boom once the fair tax is adopted.

As you know I hate the amount of spending this govenrment does, but with the fair tax at least people would see how much the cost of each item they buy goes to those wasteful spenders and will hopefully open the general public's eyes.

I Agree Peter

Choosing to live at poverty level?

Yes Bea, for the most part, in America it is a choice,

You choose how much you are educated, how much you improve yourself, how you look, how you act.

You choose to do drugs or not, to have children you cannot support or not, to earn your way through life or have someone carry you on their wallet.

You choose to make something of yourself or you choose to be poor.

People make all kinds of choices that diminish their earning power, Bea. They drop out of school, or don't go to college, or commit crimes, or get involved in drugs, or marry too young, have kids too young or with an inability to properly support them. These are all choices. These people are not victims.

Now, do I think these people should be punished for their poor choices? No. But neither should they be rewarded. As a society we need to come up with solutions that help people overcome their poor choices, which is what Bill Clinton's welfare reform was all about. We would do well to follow his example further.

Yeah Bea, we should all work on Wall St. and steal money from these "other" people that make poor choices ! LMAO !

Karen, believe it or not, I would not be happy to see you go. I just wish your online persona would catch up with the real life person you are. It’s not normal for people to make unsubstantiated allegations about people one on one. All of us might have wild baseless thoughts; we just don’t express them in a public place.

There is very little in the way of personal gain for being in public office. Its community service at its lowest form. I’m not about to have you or anyone else attack me or my friends personally because we volunteer for community service. If you think there is so much to gain by being in public office, have at it. My seat is wide open for the taking.

Peter, if your idea of openness for public figures is blogging on a website, there is a whole lot of house cleaning. If my memory serves me right, only Pat Burke, Rosemary Christian, Jay Grasso and I have ever done it. At this point, it’s hard for me to justify why anyone else would in the future. There is a complete lack of respect for anyone in public office. You would have to be a special kind of stupid to follow in my footsteps.

The last presidential candidate who ran with a Fair Tax platform and actually carried states in the primaries was Mike Huckabee. I like the Fair Tax plan because as Mike put it...everyone pays the same tax including the pimps, prostitutes and drug dealers. Mike Huckabee was a candidate I gladly supported, made phone calls for and hope will decide to run in 2012.