Local Matters

Community Sponsors

July 18, 2012 - 12:35pm

Small turn out, but lots of support for bath salt protest at 420 Emporium

posted by Howard B. Owens in batavia, crime, synthetic drugs, bath salts.

The turn out may have been but a few people at 400 Ellicott Street this morning, but the community support for the anti-bath-salt protest at 420 Emporium was much bigger.

Cars streamed by honking horns or people waved and gave a thumbs up or shouted out support.

One mother who was there said she came out because she believes bath salts have ruined her two adult sons' lives.

She said she's too embarrassed by the turn of events to give her name, but she said one of her sons made $55,000 a year and the other $40,000. They've both lost their jobs and have become exceptionally paranoid, living with sheets over their windows and convinced just about every one around them is an undercover cop.

"We took them for a ride and they said, 'there’s one,' 'there’s one,' " She said. "An old lady went by in a van and they said, 'there’s one.' I said, 'that’s an old lady. She can’t possibly be,' and they said ‘that’s what they do, they’re undercover.’"

Neither of her sons, she said, had ever gotten into any sort of trouble before they started using bath salts, which she said they bought at 420 Emporium.

Bath salts, she said, need to be completely wiped out in America.

"I’m hear because people have to see what’s going on with these kids. It’s killing them. It’s ruining their lives.  They’re losing everything they have."

Joan Liggetto (top inset photo), a licensed clinical social worker and counselor said she came out because she's just seeing too many of her clients getting messed up on bath salts.

"The more I see, the more I'm impacted," she said. "I see it just taking over youths. It's easy to get and easy to escape. I think it just makes them crazy."

She said she's seeing the same paranoia and manic behavior described by others.

"They’re normal and rational at times, but when you’re on bath salts, you’re not normal, you’re not rational," Liggetto said. "They’re staying up for three, four days; they’re on the streets at night. It’s a really, really bad epidemic the way I see it."

Councilwoman Rose Mary Christian (second inset photo) showed up as well to lend her support and she vowed again to do everything she can to get 420 Emporium shut down.

Bath salts, she said are too easy to buy.

"All you have to do is go up the counter, act crazy like somebody who is on it, and they'll sell it to you," said Christian, who pulled exactly that sort of acting job, she said, on Saturday night, and could have bought a package if she hadn't dropped the act and identified herself.

"It has to stop," Christian said.

The protest is scheduled to conclude at 1 p.m.

UPDATE: The protest pretty much dissipated by 12:30. Nicole Lang said they will put together another protest some time in the near future. Lang also said that after I left, two customers went in and one came out bragging about buying bath salts (though he didn't show a package) and the other, when he pulled away on his motorcycle, had left an empty package of alleged bath salts.

Peter O'Brien
Peter O'Brien's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 3 weeks ago
Joined: Mar 4 2009 - 1:24pm

Meh,

This story had run its course for me last week. I just don't care.

Howard B. Owens
Howard B. Owens's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 days 21 hours ago
Joined: Apr 23 2008 - 3:05pm

Good thing, then, Peter, you don't set our news coverage plans.

Kyle Couchman
Kyle Couchman's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 2 months ago
Joined: Dec 25 2009 - 8:54am

Well I guess that says all that needs to be said about you Peter...

Lisa Schwab
Lisa Schwab's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 2 months ago
Joined: Aug 25 2011 - 10:32pm

Wow I guess some people like to kick others when they are down! I think this family has been through HELL and they need people to stand by them and support them. They need a touch from GOD to heal their family and get them some how a way to not give up and still have hope.They need our prayers not our unkind words.

Beth Kinsley
Beth Kinsley's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 12 months ago
Joined: Aug 22 2008 - 9:43pm

Thank you Lisa. In the past few days I've seen the family called two-faced, hypocrites and enablers - all by people who have probably never even met them. I hope Judge Williams locks Jason up for long enough for this poison to get out of his system so he can see clearly enough to understand that he needs help.

Gabor Deutsch
Gabor Deutsch's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 11 months ago
Joined: May 24 2008 - 4:16pm

I was with a large group of others headed down to protest but we were stopped by the FBI and sworn in as honorary agents to spy on all the people that are buying and using bath salts. I just thought I would warn anyone that might be using to be careful.
:D

Mark Brudz
Mark Brudz's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 10 months ago
Joined: Feb 9 2012 - 9:33pm

Beth, the term 'Enabler' should not be contrued as totally negative. As I pointed out in another post, enabling is sometimes an inadvertant result of loved ones trying to help the addict. That is one of the horrors of addiction is that the loved ones are often helpless in the matter. There are intentional enablers, and unintentional enablers, I think the Lang family is of the unintentional variety.

It is human nature for Parents and loved ones to enable an addict with the intent of helping them, you reach the bottom when you realize that he must help himself.

Two faced, hypocrite well that is something that perhaps some should have refrained from.

Jason, will never recover until he moves to help himself,and that if it happens at all, probably will not happen until he bottoms out whether it be jail or just total disfunction, as for his family, I have nothing but sympathy for them, well many prayers as well.

Beth Kinsley
Beth Kinsley's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 12 months ago
Joined: Aug 22 2008 - 9:43pm

I do agree with you Mark. There can be a thin line between loving and supporting your children and enabling them.

Howard B. Owens
Howard B. Owens's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 days 21 hours ago
Joined: Apr 23 2008 - 3:05pm

I've disliked some of the rhetoric directed at the Langs, even Jason.

Regardless of the past or how things have evolved, this is a serious issue for all concerned.

C. M. Barons
C. M. Barons's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 5 months ago
Joined: Jul 29 2008 - 11:56pm

The impetus for what has come to be known as 'designer drugs,' is not some Olympian quest for the ultimate high. The laundry list of substances employable to attain altered states of mind is near boundless. Designer drugs exist to circumvent drug law enforcement. The campaigns and emotionalism attached to the subject of drugs prevents rational rethinking of the War on Drugs. For the most part such discussions are irrelevant, because drug users are disinclined to surrender. 22 million Americans use illegal drugs. 17.4 million Americans smoke marijuana, and its use is on the rise. 4.8 million Americans use cocaine. 31 million Americans abuse opiate-base painkillers such as Oxycontin.

I recall a cartoon from the 70s, two adults in a bar, drinks in hand, one says to the other, "Thank goodness your kid was only drinking beer, it could have been grass or LSD!" Squaring off, pitting one drug against another in an argumentative sense is merely reflective of personal preference. At the very least we need to remove marijuana from the list of illegal drugs, redeem millions of Americans from the taint of criminality and disengage the need to cook-up new concoctions to circumvent enforcement. We'll save billions on arrest-processing, adjudication and incarceration; money better spent on teen centers, community pools and playgrounds- drug alternatives.

Daniel Jones
Daniel Jones's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 months 4 weeks ago
Joined: May 2 2008 - 9:36am

It's good to see fightin' Rose Mary Christian not ceding an inch. Get 'em RoMa!

Sean McKellar
Sean McKellar's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 9 months ago
Joined: Jan 24 2009 - 5:05pm

"Designer drugs exist to circumvent drug law enforcement."
-C.M. Barons

Exactly. People use this crap because it's LEGAL. Perhaps if "traditional" drugs were available to addicts, the harm level to society would be lessened. We've had experience with coke and meth addicts for years. They can be medically treated and tested to see if they've been using. There is no treatment protocol or testing available for bath salts.

It seems to me that the criminalization of substances has led up to this crazy bath salt epidemic. Every time a drug is made illegal, some well-educated underground chemist tweaks the recipe a bit and VOILA! A new legal drug that we'll sell as bath salts or plant food! It's this bastardization of chemistry that's led to this crap that makes people get naked and climb trees.

We need to do one of two things. We could make all drugs legal and put our effort into abuse prevention education and treatment. This would instantly eliminate the bath salt craze. I'm sure that the people who choose to use this crap would rather use "real" drugs. Or strong, strong legislation needs to be put in place that makes it criminal to chemically alter substances to be used as a drug. Something that would be specific and federal. For example, the RICO act that put a huge dent in organized crime and put a whole lot of bad guys in jail.

I'm of two minds. It seems reckless to me to just make drugs legal, but it's equally reckless to give our government even more power. "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."- Ben Franklin.

Just some food for thought.

Peter O'Brien
Peter O'Brien's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 3 weeks ago
Joined: Mar 4 2009 - 1:24pm

I don't understand the big deal.

Stupid people doing stupid things happen everywhere and we don't get indepth exposes on the it.

It should be legal for the simple fact that we should have the freedom to decdide what we want to do with ourselves.

RICHARD L. HALE
RICHARD L. HALE's picture
Offline
Last seen: 2 years 7 months ago
Joined: May 22 2009 - 9:50pm

Peter....you are absolutely right...YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND the big deal, or the big picture as far as that goes.

Kyle Couchman
Kyle Couchman's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 2 months ago
Joined: Dec 25 2009 - 8:54am

I'm beginning to believe that the Miami face eating incident did involve Bath Salts as well depsite reports to the contrary. Heres why I think so...

Looking at news across the nation, in Canada several cops were injured apprehending a man under the influence of bath salts. He was mutilating his face by banging it on a fence.

Police in Georgia, Louisiana, and Florida cite the observances of these facts with those under the influence of bath salts...

Mutilation of self and others, immunity to pain, consumation (eating) of unusual or horrifying things... here are quick examples...

Man disembowels self and throws own intestines at police...
Man tasered 17 times with no effect...
police suffer multiple broken bones on at least 2 officers in subduing one individual
Man smokes bath salts in joint and begins eating his own feces, then attempts to kill family.

and so on....

I'm thinking Miami incident was bath salts as well, they say he was just under influence of weed, however the violence aspect is there, the eating of persons face fits an observed behavior, he was shot but still attempted to attack officer until he emptied his gun at perp. So maybe since bath salts werent as well known either they assumed it was just weed in his system and didnt test for bath salts, or they might have lied to keep the bath salts thing from getting out to people or for whatever reason they wanted to hide fact or counter the assumption that it was that was beginning to go around.

Either way the more I read on this stuff the more scary it becomes. Who would defend this if they even had an inkling of the the possibilities.

As sad and as rough as the things the Langs have endured so far..... From what I've seen in the news it could have been alot worse.

Peter O'Brien
Peter O'Brien's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 3 weeks ago
Joined: Mar 4 2009 - 1:24pm

I'm confused, I say drugs should be legal in a poll for freedom's sake and that gets me a ton of up votes.

I say the same thing specific to one drug and I get down voted...

You are a fickle crowd.

Richard, here is the big picture. The dumb eliminate themselves from modern society by taking bath salts. I and most others continue our lives unaffected. Society grows stronger.

tom hunt
tom hunt's picture
Offline
Last seen: 15 hours 29 min ago
Joined: Jan 31 2009 - 9:08am

Pete, it is called the Darwin Effect; doing dumb stuff to eliminate yourself from the gene pool and the breeding population. There is a website that awards a Darwin Award to people that kill themselves by their actions. Some of the stories are quite amusing and make for interesting reading. Ingesting brain damaging drugs would fall into this category.

Daniel Jones
Daniel Jones's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 months 4 weeks ago
Joined: May 2 2008 - 9:36am

Peter - The counter being that their dumb decisions effect everyone else, these drugs cause people to literally lose control of their psyche and they start doing things like wielding knives and attacking people. Freedom does not mean lawlessness, and even libertarians like Howard understand the need to ban these substances.

Frank Bartholomew
Frank Bartholomew's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 months 2 days ago
Joined: Apr 4 2010 - 8:02pm

How many cops are injured dealing with people high on alcohol? Peter, you hit the nail on the head.
Dan, you are so right, people high on alcohol have no control, anything is possible.

Daniel Jones
Daniel Jones's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 months 4 weeks ago
Joined: May 2 2008 - 9:36am

Frank - People who are drunk are not the same as those on bath salts, it's not just apples to oranges, it's apples to onions. Alcohol is regulated enough that people would have to consume an amount of alcohol nearly impossible to physically consume to be on the same level.

[video:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKbTbRqXVFg&feature=related]

Daniel Jones
Daniel Jones's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 months 4 weeks ago
Joined: May 2 2008 - 9:36am

I am not one for the morality police, I think that people should be able to do whatever they want in their private lives, so long as their actions do not effect others or effect the safety of others. However, those drugs literally cause people to lose control of their minds and start doing things that put other people in danger, they don't have a choice because of the drug, and therefore the drug should be banned for the sake of public safety. The human tragedy and the threat to the security of communities all over the country are too great because of how dangerous bath salts are. The people who peddle these drugs are taking advantage of the addiction of others by selling a dangerously powerful psychoactive substance not meant for human consumption (like alcohol), they should be not welcome anywhere.

Howard B. Owens
Howard B. Owens's picture
Offline
Last seen: 3 days 21 hours ago
Joined: Apr 23 2008 - 3:05pm

"even libertarians like Howard understand the need to ban these substances."

Don't overstate my position.

I believe this is a current public safety concern for our community.

I also believe that we need a saner drug policy in this country that legalizes some drugs, regulates others.

In the current scheme of enforcement and regulation, any ban on designer drugs where a public safety issue has been shown, a ban is a reasonable response. It would be better solution long term to reform enforcement and regulation.

Daniel Jones
Daniel Jones's picture
Offline
Last seen: 10 months 4 weeks ago
Joined: May 2 2008 - 9:36am

Howard - No overstating intended my good man, I understand that's your position and I didn't mean to say otherwise. I agree that the war on drugs hasn't worked, and it's more than likely led to the rise of substances like bath salts.

Frank Bartholomew
Frank Bartholomew's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 months 2 days ago
Joined: Apr 4 2010 - 8:02pm

Dan,alcohol works slower, but the results can be the same, look at the guy that was driving around shooting at cars and houses. I totally agree with getting dangerous drugs off the street, but for me, that would include alcohol.
If you are anti drug, but an alcohol defender, in my eyes, you are just a pretender.
The only paranoia and delusion I have seen has been some of the posts on the Batavian.

Kyle Couchman
Kyle Couchman's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 2 months ago
Joined: Dec 25 2009 - 8:54am

Really Frank the results are the same..... Tell me when was the last time that a policeman had to empty a whole clip into someone that was drunk because the three shot to the chest didnt stop him. Or tell me the last time a drunk cut open his stomach, then used his intestines as weapons when police attempted to arrest him. Or tell me that last time 14 police officers had to wrestle a single drunk into handcuffs then send 5 of those officers to the hospital with major injuries and broken bones? How about the last time a drunk had to be tasered 17 times before 4 officers could get handcuffs on him?

Alcohol not only works slower but requires much larger quantities, lets look at what the effects of alcohol actually are according to what doctors have documented...

General Effects on Human Body
There are different effects of alcohol on human body depending upon the concentration of alcohol in blood. They are generally classified as follows-
•BAC count ranging from 0.09 to 0.23% often leads to lethargy. In this condition, people become sleepy, they lose coordination and start losing their body balance. It is also characterized by blurred vision.
•When BAC count ranges from 0.17 to 0.28%, it may cause confusion in a person. It is characterized by aggravated emotional state where people try to be sentimental or overly aggressive. They are not certain of what they are doing. Dizziness continues. Nausea is also a common symptom of this phase.
•When BAC count ranges from 0.25 to 0.39%, the condition is known as stupor. In this stage, body movements are severely affected and patients lose and regain consciousness intermittently. They have a high risk of coma or even death.
•When BAC count ranges from 0.35 to 0.50% , the condition is known as coma. It is characterized by unconsciousness when body reflexes are low, breathing rate declines resulting in dropping of heartbeat rate.
•When BAC crosses the mark of 0.5%, it results in failure of CNS (Central Nervous System) ultimately resulting in death.

So thats the range of the effects of alcohol, not really up to the effects that we have witnessed with bath salts now is it?

kevin kretschmer
kevin kretschmer's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 4 months ago
Joined: Jan 26 2010 - 9:32pm

....."Or tell me the last time a drunk cut open his stomach, then used his intestines as weapons when police attempted to arrest him."

Are you referring to this guy?

http://www.northjersey.com/news/158015085_Police__Hackensack_man_cuts_se...

I read six different accounts of this news item and not one mentions anything about bath salts, only a long history of the man having mental illness and violent tendencies.

C. M. Barons
C. M. Barons's picture
Offline
Last seen: 1 year 5 months ago
Joined: Jul 29 2008 - 11:56pm

ANY drug, alcohol included, is as dangerous as the individual drinking, snorting, smoking, injecting or otherwise consuming it. Alcohol is legal and (for the most part) drinking it is acceptable. Moreover, it is generally dispensed with prudence and under social conditions; that is why it has the illusion of being safe. There are ample numbers of battered wives, husbands and children who can testify to the contrary. Granted it would be a rare occurrence for a drunk to mutilate him/herself or resort to face-eating (which has yet to be linked to amphetamine derivatives).

As with any bizarre drug-related activity, we hear of it because it IS bizarre. One of the standard scare stories included in health classes described a carload of teenagers, high on LSD driving off a cliff in a convertible. They were flapping their arms, drug-deluded into believing they could make the car fly. True or not, it is not representative of the typical acid trip. Believe me; I've been to Phish and Grateful Dead shows surrounded by trippers who's activity was limited to dancing. If someone is paranoid and uses drugs, they will become super-paranoid. If someone is psychotic and uses drugs, they will experience delusions. If someone is angry and uses drugs, especially depressants such as alcohol... Well, you get the picture.

One shouldn't assume that leveling drug topography, broadening the spectrum of safe-use indicates that I don't think some drugs warrant restrictions. The most significant issue with the designer drugs is they have not been available long enough to understand their cumulative effect on humans, nor has a culture of users evolved to formulate a lore of dosage. There is no standard of quality, ingredients or potency. Secondly, they are not used socially; they are self-administered for the express purpose of getting blasted. Herein being the key to distinguishing amphetamine derivatives from alcohol. Most people who drink alcohol (and I stress MOST) do not intend to become intoxicated.

I've witnessed plenty of violent behavior attributable to drunkenness. Climbing on roofs, wielding guns and sharp objects, paranoia, unprovoked anger, delusions, fighting, irresponsible driving, self-destructive behavior, risk-taking and sundry odd behavior; drunks are no safer, less irresponsible than individuals intoxicated by other substances. Anyone who believes to the contrary has led a sheltered life.

Kyle Couchman
Kyle Couchman's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 2 months ago
Joined: Dec 25 2009 - 8:54am

I'm sorry but I dont agree CM the results we are seeing with these Bath Salts victims are not what are seen with alcohol. The reasoning for this is, Police themselves are making the distinction, you are correct that people intoxicated on alcohol can get violent and do crazy things sometimes, but even then the depressant nature of alcohol robs them of the strength and stamina to go for long and they are still unco-ordinated and clumsy. The strength and ability to withstand pain and fight back are almost reminiscent of pcp. It was the reason police went from .38 cal 6 shooters to larger caliber weapons as when attacked by perps on pcp and other drugs that hype up the body they were ineffective at stopping power.

Police around the country are saying the same thing, these people on these bath salts are all showing very common linkable behaviors and levels of aggression.

Kyle Couchman
Kyle Couchman's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 2 months ago
Joined: Dec 25 2009 - 8:54am

Kevin.... Just like Miami there seems to be a decision made by the dept not to attribute this to bath salts, but those announcements are coming not from the officers dealing with these subjects, but the upper echelon or administrative members of the police forces. The officers that actually do the work are the voices that we should be listening to. Is it just coincidental that all of a sudden these bath salts incidents just explode into happening at the same time that this Miami incident and New Jersey incident occur? With such similar behavior and similar reactions to use of force?

Sometime politics plays into what police tell us about incidents such as these, and by the way the article I read on the NJ incident the officers on scene specifically mention his psyche history but also mention the aggrivation of this by use of drugs. Here is what was said....

Hackensack police lieutenant John Heinemann told reporters that he believes drugs or mental illness may have led to the horrific incident.

Read more: http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/05/31/zombie-alert-man-throws-his-own-inte...

Thats from the reporters at Time Magazine which do have some credibility, as compared to National Enquirer reporters...

kevin kretschmer
kevin kretschmer's picture
Offline
Last seen: 4 years 4 months ago
Joined: Jan 26 2010 - 9:32pm

So now it's a wide-spread police department cover-up and conspiracy? Really? Maybe they're privy to some secret intel about this being the gateway to the zombie apocalypse and they don't want us to know? Didn't the Batavia PD get the memo?

Of the six stories I read about this guy in NJ, all were credible, local sources, including the link I used. Where the heck did you get the National Enquirer out of that?

Kyle Couchman
Kyle Couchman's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 2 months ago
Joined: Dec 25 2009 - 8:54am

LOL Kevin stop watching TV and pay attention to real life. Police depts are run by the local municipality they police. They can choose to spin any case they are investigating any way they want... If you knew anyone in law enforcement you might know this. Perhaps they didnt want their city coming under scrutiny for a bath salts issue. Their reasons dont matter nor does it have to be anything more than a police commisioner or mayor insisting on not having to deal with the public over a bath salts issue.

Regardless, it really doesnt matter. As Howard so succintly pointed out the chemicals in bath salts are just dangerous to those who use them they are dangerous to the public at large, theres a potential massacre lurking in the future and the federal govt is already calling this a crisis...which is kinda scary as a month ago, people thought bath salts were just a bath additive you put in your bathwater to relax or treat muscle aches.

Frank Bartholomew
Frank Bartholomew's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 months 2 days ago
Joined: Apr 4 2010 - 8:02pm

Kyle, WHAT IS ALCOHOLS INTENDED PURPOSE?
And what type of threat do drunk drivers pose to the public, I haven't seen as many stories on salts or spice as I have seen on alcohol in the police blotter. Even if you took the stats at the statewide level, this county has had more alcohol related arrests in the past year than spice or salts in the entire state.
Stop defending one drug over another, when I was 15 , I witnessed one drunk man decimate the whole city police force, it took sheriffs and state police to end the incident.
Stop minimizing the dangers of alcohol, it makes you look foolish.

Kyle Couchman
Kyle Couchman's picture
Offline
Last seen: 5 years 2 months ago
Joined: Dec 25 2009 - 8:54am

Well Frank here is your answer....

Research has shown that the number one answer to this question is what you probably would expect, socialization. Many people drink as their way to fit in with others. It often boosts their confidence and helps reduce stresses they may usually have in a social setting.

The next highest reason many people drink is because they like the taste. Be it someone with a love for beer or the many mixed drinks available, people do simply enjoy the taste of these beverages.

Next, people drink to relax, or feel at ease. One of the problems with this is that many people get used to feeling at ease and relaxed and start to rely on alcohol to make them feel that way on a daily basis. At this point, the reliance on alcohol can eventually turn into an addiction which can lead to destructive behaviours and health problems.

As for your other comments, what stats do you have to prove your statement, alcoholic beverages have been around since about 600 bc spice and bath salts a few months to a year maybe so that kinda slants the stats a bit. But you are wandering off topic, we are discussing the dangers of bath salts users to the public. There is no state board or governing agency regulating bath salts like there is alcohol is there. People that serve alcohol have to be liscenced to do so and if they are tied to abuses of the substance they lose that licesnce dont they? There is no such thing in exsistance for bath salts and spice.

As for the guy holding off an entire police force when you were 15? When and where did this happen lets look at what the official police report says rather than your biased opinion (Im sure you wont tell us though) I'd be willing to bet that other drugs besides alcohol were in this person's system as well.

Frank Bartholomew
Frank Bartholomew's picture
Offline
Last seen: 7 months 2 days ago
Joined: Apr 4 2010 - 8:02pm

Kyle, if you would read slower, I stated "in the last year". And I don't give a damn what research says, so that is your answer, people use other drugs to socialize as well, and if you know anything about "speed" you would know it makes one very talkative, something that comes in handy when socializing.
Kyle, the incident I mentioned happened on Central Ave,I'm guessing 1972, the perp was someone I knew through my father. The guy was Native American, he is now deceased, as well as at least 3 of the police officers who were on scene.
As far as calling my opinion biased, you make me laugh Kyle, you got a lot to learn.
Socialization is a reason, not an intended purpose, try again Kyle.

Post new comment

Log in or register to post comments

Calendar

S M T W T F S
 
 
 
 
 
 
1
 
2
 
3
 
4
 
5
 
6
 
7
 
8
 
9
 
10
 
11
 
12
 
13
 
14
 
15
 
16
 
17
 
18
 
19
 
20
 
21
 
22
 
23
 
24
 
25
 
26
 
27
 
28
 
29
 
30
 
31
 
 
 
 
 
 

Copyright © 2008-2020 The Batavian. All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy | Terms of Service
 

blue button