July 27, 2010 - 7:28am
Today's Poll: Should the U.S. continue the war in Afghanistan?
posted by Howard B. Owens in polls.
July 27, 2010 - 10:55am#1
The USA will NEVER leave Afghanistan!!! Because of THIS: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/14/world/asia/14minerals.html 1 TRILLION dollars worth.....We are there for the LONG HAUL....Better get used to it folks!
July 27, 2010 - 11:02am#2
Julie, There is oil off the cost of Viet Nam and one of the worlds best deep water ports and people said we would never leave.
July 27, 2010 - 11:08am#3
The tide is turning. The American public is turning against this war, just as it did Vietnam. The Wikileaks documents undermine any pretext to the notion that we have, will or can make progress there. Americans will not stand for seeing our young people slaughtered in an unwinnable war, no matter minerals or Bin Laden.
July 27, 2010 - 12:08pm#4
"We have shot an amazing number of people,but to my knowledge,none have ever proven to be a threat."-Gen.Stanley McChrystal New York Times 3/26/10
July 28, 2010 - 12:16am#5
“Nobody ever won a war dying for his country. You make the other poor, dumb bastard die for HIS country.” – Patton
July 28, 2010 - 8:53am#6
"Why should we hear about body bags and death? I mean,it's not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that?"-Barbara Bush "Terror means killing and robbery and coercion by people who do not have state authority"-Bill Clinton
July 28, 2010 - 9:15am#7
"In time of actual war, great discretionary powers are constantly given to the Executive Magistrate. Constant apprehension of War, has the same tendency to render the head too large for the body. A standing military force, with an overgrown Executive will not long be safe companions to liberty. The means of defence agst. foreign danger, have been always the instruments of tyranny at home. Among the Romans it was a standing maxim to excite a war, whenever a revolt was apprehended. Throughout all Europe, the armies kept up under the pretext of defending, have enslaved the people." James Madison, June 29,1787, from a speech delivered during the Constitutional Convention
July 28, 2010 - 9:21am#8
So, we lose the War on Terror? After years of talk about 9/11, weapons of mass destruction and rouge states, we just give up and wait for the next attack? We admit that we created more terrorists than we killed. We pack our bags and bury our dead, just like Bin Laden told us we would. We all feel content that we installed two dysfunctional corrupt governments? Oh, yea that’s right they have been “democratized”?? So, we will never win,” let’s give up” is our new motto? We leave everyone who helped us over there to get their heads chopped off? I got news for all of you; this isn’t a war we can lose. Those people hate us and want us all dead. They attacked us and will kill us all the minute they have a chance. This isn’t Vietnam.. We were attacked and they are not going to surrender and play nice if we give them their sandbox back..
July 28, 2010 - 9:32am#9
It doesn’t matter how much the war to live costs. It doesn’t matter how long it takes. Surrender isn’t an option when your enemy won’t accept a white flag. I’m not sure if you all understand that the terms of surrender are to DIE.
July 28, 2010 - 9:39am#10
The inevitable outcome of an endless war in Afghanistan and Iraq == the end of the United States.
July 28, 2010 - 9:41am#11
The 48 contiguous states, in the current geo-political environment are pretty defensible. There's no need to fight foreign wars to fight terrorism.
July 28, 2010 - 9:52am#12
Yup Howard, your right. The ocean is big enough to protect us from a suit case bomb. Look how well the ocean handled all that oil. So, what's the plan? Chop our own heads off or wait??
July 28, 2010 - 9:57am#13
Charlie, we are no more or no less safe from a suitcase bomb with our children dying in the desert than not. Why waste blood and treasure on an unwinnable war that can serve no purpose to make us safer from an asymmetrical attack?
July 28, 2010 - 9:58am#14
Agreed Howard. The US needs to stop fighting an unwinnable war, and bring our troops home. Secure and defend our borders. Rebuild OUR infrastructure, not the Afghan or Iraqi roads, bridges and buildings. If we truly wanted to "win" this war, we would need to exhibit a no-holds barred approach, something our PC society would find uncivil. "So go fight your war, but make it a clean fight". That's where we are at. Charlie, I agree that withdrawl at this point would be perceived as failure, but I don't believe our troops and weapons are being used to their fullest potential. Again, we're in a war, but we worry about what the rest of the world thinks. I think the expression "go big or stay home" is appropriate in this situation.
July 28, 2010 - 10:05am#15
Charlie, We are not fighting to win the war in Afghanistan, but to win over the people. As such, we are not wining either. When you have to ask permission to shoot somebody you see carrying a AK 47, you lose. It's time to leave after 9 years.
July 28, 2010 - 10:18am#16
Our Grandparents were the greatest generation and we were the last. Our weakness, gluttony and greed were our undoing.
July 28, 2010 - 10:27am#17
John, then we better change tactics because; cutting and running isn’t an option this time around.
July 28, 2010 - 10:28am#18
A big part of the problem, in my view, is our ridiculous insistence on calling Pakistan and Saudi Arabia allies. The wiki-leak papers show that Pakistan is covertly supporting the Taliban, our enemy. Our natural ally is India and we ignore them. I agree Howard, we are no safer with our people fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq or anywhere else than if they were not, probably less safe. Our actions are the best recruiting tool Al-Queda and the Taliban have. I'm sorry about the people in those countries who'll be screwed when we leave, truly. But we are not the world police.
July 28, 2010 - 10:38am#19
Charlie, This generation of our military is the greatest generation. They go back time after time, with little notice. They all volunteer for this. I know one who has been in the army for 8 years and been deployed 6 times. There is one reservist from this area who has been deployed to Iraq 4 times and Afghanistan once. This is your greatest.
July 28, 2010 - 10:48am#20
John, so we in the “weakest generation” pull the rug out from under them and tell them all their losses were for nothing because, we lack the intestinal fortitude to let our army kill our enemies. The war plan is wrong, not the war. We should be bombing our enemies from afar, not handing out candy bars and building them schools.
July 28, 2010 - 11:03am#21
Charlie, Since the plan is not going to change,yes, we go home.
July 28, 2010 - 12:50pm#22
Charlie, Afghanistan doesn't get referred to as The Graveyard of Empires for nothing: http://www.fff.org/blog/jghblog2010-07-28.asp If one truly "Supports the Troops" they wouldn't support sending them into a no win situation. Our people will always do their best. It's the civilian leadership that's screwing this up, and that needs to stop. If some political careers are trashed, that may not be a bad thing.
July 28, 2010 - 1:27pm#23
Charlie how many more weddings and schools should we drop bombs on "from afar" before you would consider it a win? Ron Paul's position on the war is to bring the troops home and he received more financial support from active military than all of the other candidates combined. Apparently they don't feel we would be pulling the rug out from under them if we brought them home. Terry Paine (father of two sons lucky to be alive after serving multiple times in Afghanistan and Iraq) Also I didn't know you were a fan of Dick Cheney's war strategy "Bombs not candy bars"
July 28, 2010 - 1:49pm#24
July 28, 2010 - 2:14pm#25
Chris; From an old guy. Ozzy back when you could almost understand him object width="425" height="344">
July 28, 2010 - 2:21pm#26
With all due respect, here are the lyrics from "War Pigs" Apropos to today, in my opinion: Generals gathered in their masses Just like witches at black masses Evil minds that plot destruction Sorcerers of death's construction In the fields the bodies burning As the war machine keeps turning Death and hatred to mankind Poisoning their brainwashed minds Oh lord yeah! Politicians hide themselves away They only started the war Why should they go out to fight? They leave that role to the poor Time will tell on their power minds Making war just for fun Treating people just like pawns in chess Wait 'til their judgement day comes Yeah! Now in darkness world stops turning Ashes where the bodies burning No more war pigs have the power Hand of God has struck the hour Day of judgement, God is calling On their knees the war pig's crawling Begging mercy for their sins Satan laughing spreads his wings Oh lord yeah! More lyrics: http://www.lyricsfreak.com/b/black+sabbath/#share
July 28, 2010 - 2:51pm#27
Come on, the classic anti-war song: But there's also the question I ask myself, all the time, "What's so funny about peace, love and understanding", As I walk through This wicked world Searchin for light in the darkness of insanity. I ask myself Is all hope lost? Is there only pain and hatred, and misery? And each time I feel like this inside, There's one thing I wanna know: What's so funny bout peace love & understanding? ohhhh What's so funny bout peace love & understanding? And as I walked on Through troubled times My spirit gets so downhearted sometimes So where are the strong And who are the trusted? And where is the harmony? Sweet harmony. Cause each time I feel it slippin away, just makes me wanna cry. What's so funny bout peace love & understanding? ohhhh What's so funny bout peace love & understanding? So where are the strong? And who are the trusted? And where is the harmony? Sweet harmony. Cause each time I feel it slippin away, just makes me wanna cry. What's so funny bout peace love & understanding? ohhhh What's so funny bout peace love & understanding? ohhhh What's so funny bout peace love & understanding?
July 28, 2010 - 3:20pm#28
You all act as though the Afghan war was a choice rather than being inflicted on us. Afghanistan isn’t Iraq. Those people are not just going to pull back; this sign of weakness will embolden them. Every rational person in that country will be put to death the minute we run with our tail between our legs. We will send another horrible message of weakness. Don't we still have bases in Japan, German and Korea? Why does Afghanistan get a time table? Why did we expect that this war wouldn't take time? I wonder what each one of you said we should do on 9/12?
July 28, 2010 - 3:50pm#29
Charlie, On 9/12 I was on one of those bases in Germany wearing Kevlar and carrying around my gas mask. If our government can't be honest about the situation there then it's time to bring the boys back home.
July 28, 2010 - 3:31pm#30
Charlie, The Afghan's have had 9 years to build an army and fight their own fight. If after 9 years, they can't or will not, then it's over. And unless your willing to take on Pakistan, you can't win. And on 9/12, we said destroy them. But Bush and now Obama refused to do that. If you refuse to win, then don't fight.
July 28, 2010 - 3:41pm#31
I thought something a bit louder might be good about now.
July 28, 2010 - 3:42pm#32
Pushing the "Like" button for John's comment above.
July 28, 2010 - 3:53pm#33
Also 'like' for John's comment. And Dave, I'll see your Ozzie and raise you some Dead Kennedys.
July 28, 2010 - 3:59pm#34
The issue at this point isn't whether we should have responded to 9/11, but how? It's a legitimate question as to whether the initial response was strategically correct, and it's an imperative question now as to whether to continue or change our strategy. While our enemies would spin a withdrawal as a defeat, screw them. We need to do what's right for the people of the United States. Screw pride. Implement the correct strategy. It is manifestly folly to continue a war that cannot be won and that if continued would only drag the country further toward destruction.
July 28, 2010 - 4:03pm#35
July 28, 2010 - 4:59pm#36
Howard, A couple more Punk Rock love songs aimed at the bush administration.
July 28, 2010 - 6:28pm#37
Should we pull out of Afghanistan? Or should we stay there and try to do what should have been getting done? Bush screwed the military by getting involved in Iraq when he did. That being said Clinton played apart in the problem by not doing his job back in 1998. Clinton should have held the UN's feet to the fire. But that's all said and done now right? The military should have been sent to Afghanistan and used in the same way they were used during wars past. There should have been a focus besides taking the capitol and passing out candy bars. By paying more attention to Iraq we allowed for the Taliban to regroup. That was Bushes fault. Now that he is out of the picture Obama should pick up the slack. Keep the troops there and do what needs to be done to eliminate the Taliban once and for all. Since that is not likely to happen we should then consider the alternative. Pull the troops back home. Militarize the borders. That's right both of them. the federal government should strictly enforce the immigration laws of our country in an attempt to prevent another incident like 9/11 from happening. We don't need any new laws we just need people to start enforcing the ones we already have. I don't have much faith in that happening though. So most likely the troops will get pulled back home and the civilian leadership will do everything they can to try to make everyone happy. In the process they will screw our country over because they still won't do what is necessary to protect our country.
July 28, 2010 - 8:34pm#38
You all seem to suffer from a bad case of defeatism. Pathetic... Am i hearing that since we are unable to use our military to defend us from radicals, it's alternate purpose should now be to kill Mexicans who are looking for field work? How stupid of me, of course, the Mexicans and their need for work is the root of all our problems..
July 28, 2010 - 8:46pm#39
Charlie, you should go into politics. You spin very well. It comes naturally to you. Who needs reality when you can spin?
July 28, 2010 - 9:00pm#40
Howard, shouldn't you be organizing a peaceful protest? You all could sing songs, smoke pot, hold hands and burn a flag.
July 28, 2010 - 8:58pm#41
Horrors, Howard, then he will be forever known as a politician.
July 28, 2010 - 9:18pm#42
Howard, reality? Someone suggests militarizing our borders and there is nothing shocking about that? You don't see the irony in that? To some people our biggest enemies are now the Mexicans. Not the terrorists who look to kill us everyday. It's the poor people who pick food from our fields. The spinners are the ones who are distracting us with this fake immigration issue.
July 28, 2010 - 9:34pm#43
Charlie, If the Feds started to enforce the existing laws in regards to immigration and properly staffing ICE. Then we might be able to prevent more "terrorist" from entering the country. It may come as a huge surprise to you that the only people crossing our borders are not Mexicans looking for a better life or field work. The fact that many people from Arab countries resemble our neighbors to the south is not lost on these terrorist organizations. When there is a real problem that is identified it should be handled with a real interest in solving the problem. Don't just go through the motions. If you took my previous comment as being a defeatist attitude then I'm sorry if I confused you. My opinion concerning Afghanistan is that we should stay there and handle our business. Destroy the Taliban. In no uncertain terms that means find them were ever they are and kill them. Do not arrest them, do not use kid gloves, kill them with extreme prejudice. That's what should have been getting done in the first place. In matters of war against an enemy of our country the Government should NOT take into account the input from all the armchair generals. We have people that are professional Soldiers, Sailors, Marines and Airman that get paid to be good at making war. The way the Government is using the military in Afghanistan is like someone that builds a muscle car and then only uses the car to drive around the town once a week on Sundays. Since the current administration has no real interest in using the military to actually complete the mission of destroying the Taliban and capturing Osama Bin Laden, then why not just bring the military home and line them up shoulder to shoulder on both borders. Then maybe we can try to keep the inevitable from happening.
July 28, 2010 - 9:35pm#44
Charlie, more spinning. I'm responding entirely to your "defeatism" comment. Putting false labels on your opponents arguments is classic red herring political spin. Here's some essential viewing: The Daily Show
July 28, 2010 - 10:00pm#45
Jeremiah, that makes your position much more clear. Thanks. I'll cross you off the list of those who would like to hide their heads in the sand hoping our enemies will just go away. Sorry Howard, defeatism is an accurate description of what I'm reading and seeing in the poll. Although, referring to me as a politician is called baiting.
July 28, 2010 - 10:19pm#46
War breeds discontent, and radical groups like Taliban, Hizbollah, Fatah, Al Saika, Hamas, Al Qaeda and Abu Nidal feed on discontent. There is no shortage of discontent in countries where the annual living wage averages less than $400- as low as $70. ...Where illiteracy exceeds 30%, up to 85% for women. ...Where landmines left from decades of fighting kill tens-of-thousands of children. ...Where unemployment is highest in the developing world- nearing 50%. ...Where despite oil production the total economic output of the Arab world equals that of Spain. ...Where thousands die in factional and civil strife. ...Where child mortality is tenfold compared to industrialized nations. ...Where water is scarce and treatment facilities scarcer. ...Where malnutrition is rampant and has seen no improvement in two decades. ...Where the doctor/patient ratio is 1/4000 in Saudi Arabia, 1/5300 in Afghanistan, 1/25,000 in Somalia. ...Where less than 6% of homes have electric service. ...Where 40% of the population live in utter poverty. ...Where slavery is still practiced, where stoning and torture are inflicted, where thousands of political prisoners languish in jails and many more simply disappear. With in excess of $1 trillion (not to ignore the human toll) to invest toward winning the hearts and minds of the Arab world, how could that money be best spent?
July 28, 2010 - 10:27pm#47
"With in excess of $1 trillion (not to ignore the human toll) to invest toward winning the hearts and minds of the Arab world, how could that money be best spent? " By not meddling in their internal affairs. Which is how we got into this mess in the first place.
July 28, 2010 - 11:05pm#48
I beieve,and this is only an opinion, Our country lost face value when we walked out of Vietnam. To walk away from this war, and leave those who fought with us behind, will produce the same results.We will be ripe for the picking.
July 28, 2010 - 11:19pm#49
Better be careful Charlie, you may be approaching deletion,lol
July 28, 2010 - 11:49pm#50
Howard, I asked the question rhetorically, and your point is valid, albeit it postdated. We view our actions in Iraq and Afghanistan as political- whether based on national security or revenge for the 9/11 attacks. The citizens of Iraq and Afghanistan don't see our actions as political (the Mullahs and Imams do); the average Arab takes our presence personally. An Afghani peasant doesn't know Mohamed Atta from the mayor of Dubuque. On the same note, that peasant doesn't differentiate the U. S. military from the Soviets who preceded us. Our policy should reflect the legacy we choose to foster not only in the Mideast, but at home as Frank and Jeremiah have noted. We committed to these actions without an end plan; hopefully someone is working on one now.