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Today's Poll: Today's Poll: Can Paladino beat Cuomo?

By Howard B. Owens
Dave Olsen

Who knows at this point? It would seem that Cuomo has the edge, as he has been the front-runner since at least early this year according to all the polls and pundits when placed against anyone else. But not many picked Carl Paladino to even make a race of it in the primary much less blow Lazio away. We'll see, I'll have a good idea Nov. 3

Sep 17, 2010, 10:43am Permalink
bud prevost

A snowball in Hades has more of a chance than Paladino does. My curiosity...is Cuomo really an agent of change, or just another blowhard saying whatever it takes to be elected?

Sep 17, 2010, 10:52am Permalink
Beth Kinsley

Has anyone received any of Paladino's garbage scented flyers yet? He was on CNN last night demonstrating it. I hope I'm not on his mailing list.

Sep 17, 2010, 11:06am Permalink
Bob Price

Well,anyone remember Mario Cuomo? I don't think the apple fell far from the tree. No matter who gets in,I think it will be the same old,same old.At least someone from WNY will be either Governor or Lt.Governor-we'll see if that helps people out or not.

Sep 17, 2010, 1:29pm Permalink
John Roach

Bob,
What I remember most about Mario was when he sold Attica Prison to the State. That was a neat gimmick that we are still paying for.

Sep 17, 2010, 1:50pm Permalink
Lorie Longhany

No -- Paladino can't beat Cuomo -- no matter how many people vote "yes" from Genesee County.

Carl Paladino can't even get the support of most of the candidates running on his own ticket let alone the Conservative Party Chairman, Michael Long, who just made a statement that "Paladino is more of a caricature than a candidate". He added "Paladino is unelectable and he is appealing to people's basic fears with hateful rhetoric."

Any value voter better think twice about pulling the lever for Paladino in the General. There is absolutely no place in public discourse for a sexist, racist, misogynistic bigot. We've come too far to go back 100 years. Poor people don't belong in prison camps and stating that people living below the poverty line need to learn basic hygiene is about the most bigoted thing I have ever heard.

Sep 17, 2010, 3:36pm Permalink
Charlie Mallow

Kinky Carl doesn't have a chance against the machine. He will be lucky to stay out of prison after the election.

Chris, make that $40....

Sep 17, 2010, 5:32pm Permalink
George Richardson

How many of you would vote for Paladino if he ran for Batavia City Council? That's what I thought, let me show you to your office Governor Cuomo.

Sep 18, 2010, 10:17am Permalink
C. M. Barons

Per an ABC/CNN Poll, Tea Party-ers are more educated and wealthier than the average American. Nearly 75% are college educated, and two-thirds earn more than $50,000. Rather than representatives of middle-class America, they are white, male and middle-aged or beyond. According to the LA Times, they are graying baby-boomers revisiting their college revolutionary days.

T P numbers: 4% of Americans actively participate, 16% pay it lip service. Tea Party continuity breaks down when examined in detail: when queried about leadership alignment, 66% favor Sarah Palin (only 40% describe her presidential aptitude as effective), 59% favor Glenn Beck, 57% favor George W. Bush, 35% view John McCain favorably and 28% lean toward Ron Paul.

While some polls have ranked Tea Party support as high as 31%, questionnaires in those polls asked more general questions- "Do you support the Tea Party movement?" Neglecting quantification of that support, it generally translated, "How dissatisfied are you with government?" Only 1% of Blacks identify with the Tea Party. More significant- the AP poll found 60% of Americans DO NOT support the Tea Party Movement, and the CBS/NY Times study found 62% out of favor.

A Fox News poll asked, "Which party best shares your values?" The Democratic Party weighed in at 40%, Republican Party, 25% and Tea Party garnered only 19%. The AP poll asked, "From what you have heard or read, would you say you generally agree or disagree with the Tea Party movement's positions on social and political issues?" 24% said they agreed.

A March Quinnipiac University poll survey of 2,000 registered voters concluded that 55% of the Tea Party Movement are women. With a margin of error over 6%, that poll runs in opposition to others. The conclusion does parallel political reality- women are better able to carve time for activity in political organizations. The question remains, what role do women assume in the Tea Party? Sarah Palin has become the movements' poster child, however 40% do not consider her presidential material. The average T P female is anti-choice, anti-gay marriage, ostensibly, conservative/Christian/anti-feminist and worried about Medicare benefits. The typical 60s radical was male and anti-feminist- explaining the detachment of the women's rights organization from the anti-war movement. It would appear gender role dichotomy is expressed in T P politics: male candidates supported by female campaign workers. Palin's credentials have been known to be examined after cigars and canned-beer are exhausted.

Tying this back to Carl Paladino- his porno-pandering, strip club pawing and racist world view; I guess he fits the hapless male stereotype. ...Just what we need to top the cake of dysfunctional Albany.

I'd rather see Carl on South Park.

Sep 18, 2010, 12:14pm Permalink
Mark Potwora

CM why all the name calling..why not just talk about what his ideas are, and how they won't work in this State..Do you also describe Patterson in that way..He has many skeletons in his closet..What about our last governor Eliot Spitzer.What names do you have for him..

Sep 18, 2010, 12:21pm Permalink
JoAnne Rock

George,

A blonde joke? Didn't you read Lorie's post?

"There is absolutely no place in public discourse for a sexist, racist, misogynistic bigot."

You must belong to that vast hapless male stereotype that CM speaks of. Luckily, I'm neither blonde nor sensitve to sexist humor, nor most humor for that matter.

Good point Mark...Why aren't we discussing issues and ideas.

Sep 18, 2010, 12:40pm Permalink
Chris Charvella

Because Kinky Carl doesn't have ideas, he has platitudes.

Cuomo has ideas and goals. He's written them out for all of New York to see in detail.

Sep 18, 2010, 1:47pm Permalink
Chris Charvella

JoAnne, Cuomo DOES have ideas and he HAS written them out for you to see in detail.

Paladino blathers on about cutting spending, but he has no real plan to do it.

Sep 18, 2010, 2:10pm Permalink
Mark Potwora

Joanne.Seems to me all they every do is call names..I hear it all the time from the democrats about the Tea Party..The Tea Party has many good ideas,what are they all afraid of...CM's name calling shows me how he isn't above all thrash talking and chooses to lower himself to that level.That alone would make me not want to vote for him....Same with Chris,he tell us that Carl Paladino talks about cutting spending and that is blathering,But Cuomo has ideas...and thats not blathering...Cuomo is the problem with New York..Things will still run the same in Albany if he get elected..We all know it..

Sep 18, 2010, 2:33pm Permalink
George Richardson

Joanne said: "A blonde joke?"

Oh, did I say blonde? My bad, I meant brunette as in the BPOO-Bachmann,Palin,Ovary O'Donnell drive. "Year of the nutcake woman, 2010."
Combined, they're still not as bad as Mitch McConnell, Zombie Senator from Kentucky.

Sep 18, 2010, 3:24pm Permalink
JoAnne Rock

Keep that up George, and the joke police are going to label you a mysoginist...you may never be taken seriously again. I don't think you're a mysoginist...I think you're a softie that loves all women regardless of haircolor.

Sep 18, 2010, 4:16pm Permalink
JoAnne Rock

Mark,

I agree with you on the name calling issue. I could tolerate the name calling if it eventually lead to spirited debate and open dialogue on the issues...but it never does.

It just seems to be a bullying tactic used to instill a fear of ridicule for anyone that has an opposing viewpoint. Unfortunately, their tactic works...there are fewer and fewer opposing viewpoints on this site...and I come here less and less because of it.

Paladino won in Genesee County by a wide margin; yet no one has openly supported him or his ideas on this thread. Why? Because the ridicule and name calling that would follow is not worth it.

The truth is...if you support the Tea Party, Paladino, or the AZ Immigration Law...if you are against the Health care bill or the Ground Zero Mosque...or, God forbid, you watch Fox News (or worse...Glenn Beck)...don't bother posting here unless you enjoy being called a racist wingnut.

Sep 18, 2010, 5:53pm Permalink
Charlie Mallow

Or maybe there is no one willing to defend a guy who enjoys pictures of woman having sexual relations with farm animals. Worse yet, he sends those pictures to everyone in his address book without even the smallest thought that someone would be offended. That tells most people that the man is as dumb as a rock.

Sep 18, 2010, 6:12pm Permalink
Chris Charvella

JoAnne, Mark,

Cuomo wrote a damn book about his policy plans and how he intends to implement them. Do yourselves a favor, head to his website and have a look. You don't even have to read them, I just want you to see that they exist so you don't sound so ill-informed about the difference in policy effort between Paladino and Cuomo.

As far as name calling, nothing has been said that is untrue, life sucks whne you're a degenerate running for office.

Sep 18, 2010, 6:50pm Permalink
Dave Olsen

"Unfortunately, their tactic works...there are fewer and fewer opposing viewpoints on this site...and I come here less and less because of it." Actually, Joanne I disagree, I find more and more names that I haven't seen before or don't see very often on here with all manner of opinions; mostly when the thread regards local Batavia & Genesee County issues. Other than a few people who spend a lot of time calling each other names, and defending their own name calling, I don't see where you get that. I've noticed that if an INTELLIGENT spirited debate does get going, many of the regular commenters tend to stay out of it. Of course not always, but this us against them mentality you and some others have alluded to, isn't there. If someone makes an outlandish or downright stupid statement and gets called on it, that's not ridicule.

Sep 18, 2010, 7:04pm Permalink
George Richardson

JoAnne, I would never deliberately try to hurt anyone's feelings, male or female. But, I call BS on 99.9% of the manufactured outrage in America today. Phoney B. Loney.
Think about life in Haiti, and then try to complain about our situation in the United States. We should all be ashamed.

Sep 18, 2010, 8:33pm Permalink
C. M. Barons

Mark, I don't consider reporting documented facts, name-calling. If you can substantiate that Paladino's distribution of porn, antics in a lesbian burlesque club and statements as to inferior hygiene of African Americans are untrue; I'll retract them.

Sep 18, 2010, 9:22pm Permalink
Howard B. Owens

I don't for a minute believe that Cuomo intends to do one damn thing he says he's going to do. Like all career politicians, his only intention is to get elected. And once in, insure he and his cronies are well pampered.

And Paladino will do the same, only more brazenly.

God help us if either Cuomo or Paladino win.

Sep 18, 2010, 9:28pm Permalink
Chris Charvella

Back that up Howard. What would make you think Andrew Cuomo isn't serious? Which cronies are you talking about?

Cuomo has spent the last couple years sweeping the Democratic party in New York clean of it's bad apples and it's no secret that if you're a scumbag elected from any party, Andrew is putting you on notice.

Carl Paladino is a long time member of the pay to play political fraternity, he knows the game and there's no evidence that he won't continue to play it whether in office or out.

Sep 18, 2010, 11:08pm Permalink
Mark Potwora

Chris .. Paladino also has a web site that tells were he stands on the issues..So i'll use your line on you...... I just want you to see that they exist so you don't sound so ill-informed about the difference in policy effort between Paladino and Cuomo.I have read Cuomo's stand on issues..one thing he says is he wants to right size New York State ..claims that there are to many on the payroll,do you think for one minute he going to cuts thousands of state union jobs..I don't..He a Democrat,they don't cut jobs they add jobs to the state payroll..Like Howard says i think both of them will say what ever they have to say to get elected..Do you really think he will change the State pension system,so that union workers will get less when they retire..Not going to happen..A vote for Cuomo is just a vote for the same BS we have been getting from Albany.Nothing will change..I don't want you to sound ill-informed either....

Sep 18, 2010, 11:13pm Permalink
Howard B. Owens

Chris, Fact: Cuomo has spent his life in politics. Fact: He's a Democrat (and that's no swipe at Democrats, I'd say the same thing if he's a Republican).

All party politicians know is cronyism. You don't get to his position in party politics without being a crony. It violates the laws of physics to arrive there any other way.

And I'm not supporting Paladino. Just speaking the truth.

Sep 18, 2010, 11:23pm Permalink
Chris Charvella

Pessimism is sure to help, Howard. Keep it up.

Mark, Andrew Cuomo has detailed what he's going to do as governor and how he's going to do it. Nearly 250 pages worth of policy ideas and implementation plans have been available for months.

Carl Paladino has stated his position on issues but has not offered any details on how he intends to get from point A to point B. Unless you count putting poor people in dormitories as a plan. Paladino has a bad attitude and a megaphone; those things will get you a long way in politics but people will only listen for so long. Eventually you have to prove you can actually do the job effectively.

Sep 18, 2010, 11:44pm Permalink
Chris Charvella

Howard, I feel like I need to address your comment a little further. You still havent' given any reason for people to doubt Andrew Cuomo's sincerity.

He's spent his life in politics, ok. If this was a candidate you were supporting, you'd call that experience. Cuomo has been effective over the course of his career. Give me an example of something he's done to make you doubt his sincerity.

Sep 18, 2010, 11:47pm Permalink
Howard B. Owens

Chris, it's not pessimism. It's reality. The current two-party structure needs to be crushed and replaced.

"If this was a candidate you were supporting, you'd call that experience."

Except that I would never support a career politician.

"Give me an example of something he's done to make you doubt his sincerity. "

He ran as a member of a major party.

Sep 18, 2010, 11:58pm Permalink
George Richardson

Man, I wish Rick Perry would move to Albany, you would love him as much as we never have. He would be saying you'se guys instead of y'all, in very short order, and we would be saying poor y'all and laughing our asses off in Austin. Count your blessings.

Sep 19, 2010, 12:09am Permalink
Chris Charvella

Sorry Howard, that's jaded pessimism. Andrew Cuomo has done nothing in his career to draw your suspicion except hold office. Do yourself a favor and open your mind. Read his platform and consider opening your mind to the man's ideas.

Having 'politician' as a job description isn't a bad thing by default. There's something to be said for a person who understands how government works and who has the experience and the guts to govern based on what needs to be done right now instead of being a slave to ideology.

Andrew Cuomo has adopted a platform that addresses the needs of this state at the moment and he has outlined his plan to implement that platform. If you find fault with his ideas, please let me know.

Your unfounded assumptions will carry no weight with people who are paying attention to the realities of this race.

Sep 19, 2010, 1:00am Permalink
JoAnne Rock

Chris, I have been following every candidate and reading all of their plans and ideas. I don't necessarily think it is necessary for a candidate to tell me how he is going to get from point A to point B...I only have to believe that he is capable of doing it. Both Cuomo and Paladino are intelligent men and seem amply qualified to implement a plan of action.

I have to agree with Howard on the aspect of Cuomo being a career politician. Paladino has pledged to only serve one term. Whether he will stick with that pledge is not certain.

As far as something Cuomo has done to make someone doubt his sincerity? I don't know that sincerity is the right word...but here is an example of his inability to solve a problem without creating a new one:

http://www.hvccpetition.com/Video.aspx

I also noticed that his Strategic Jobs Initiative has that pesky anti-business clawback provision we discussed before.

And one other thing...I won't refer to Cuomo's Expanded Work Sharing Program idea as forced unemployment if you stop referring to Paladino's Dignity Corps idea as "putting poor people in dormitories".

Sep 19, 2010, 1:05am Permalink
Chris Charvella

Clawbacks aren't anti-business. They simply ensure that businesses are telling the truth when they apply for tax breaks.

Paladino called them dormitories, I was being nice when I chose to use his word instead of my own.

Sep 19, 2010, 1:13am Permalink
Howard B. Owens

Chris, since you are deeply enmeshed in party politics, your only response can be is as it was above.

I'm not the one who needs to open his mind.

An open mind and experience in politics is what taught me not to trust the party machines. I didn't arrive at this conclusion with blinders on. Party politics are inherently corrupt and corrupting.

Sep 19, 2010, 1:28am Permalink
JoAnne Rock

Some clawbacks are anti-business. If they are based on short term benchmarks, I have no problem with them.

This particular one requires recipients to sign an agreement with NYS as to how many jobs they will create with the incentive...these jobs must last 10 years or the clawback takes effect. Can any business owner today honestly know what the business climate will be in 10 years? It doesn't seem right that if a new business manages to survive 10 years, but falls short of the required number of employees, their whole business could be put in jeopardy with the clawback.

Sep 19, 2010, 1:29am Permalink
Chris Charvella

Howard, I've been critical of many a Democrat right here on your site.

Andrew Cuomo is the real deal and he has the skills, the knowledge and the frame of mind to get New York back on track. Carl Paladino has ideas with no substance. Rick Lazio at least had experience and ability; too bad he didn't have any money, at least we could have had a real debate about ideas.

Sep 19, 2010, 1:35am Permalink
JoAnne Rock

Gee Chris...your civil discourse lasted 30 minutes. Is that your personal best?

It doesn't surprise me. I brought up specific issues I had with Cuomo and you had no answers. You could not defend your candidate's position, so you revert back to the old standby...attack the opposition and hope nobody notices all the smoke and mirrors.

Sep 19, 2010, 2:15am Permalink
JoAnne Rock

The funny part is...you think I support Paladino. I have not decided who I am going to vote for. I have decided to learn as much as I can about all the candidates before making a decision.

I'm beginning to think that YOU did not even read Cuomo's 250 page plan. But certainly, no democrat would ever make an important voting decision without first reading all the information. Oh!...My bad...I forgot about the health care bill.

I think that you hate Paladino more than you like Cuomo!

Sep 19, 2010, 2:39am Permalink
Chris Charvella

JoAnne, I'm just getting warmed up. The pictures explain Paladino's positions on issues correctly...except for the Miss France thing, that explains his position on a pornographic video he emailed to a few hundred people from a government email account.

Sep 19, 2010, 7:38am Permalink
Dave Olsen

Howard is absolutely correct!! The 2 party system is the problem here. Paladino beat Lazio because people are angry and fed-up with career politicians and the party dictating who gets to run. I just think the frustration is mis-placed. It's the whole party system that keeps on screwing regular folks. Take that momentum and vote in as many people from Governor down, who are not Demicans or Republocrats.

Chris; remember when Barack Obama was asked before he was inaugurated which campaign promise he was going to start implementing and he said" I'm not going to run my administration based on campaign promises" Get ready for a similar statement from Andrew if he wins. Especially if Democrats hold on to both houses.

Sep 19, 2010, 7:45am Permalink
JoAnne Rock

Internment Camps??? That doesn't even justify a comment.

You must be one of only a handful of people that have never seen, laughed at or shared an off-color joke.

You should take George's advice and show some real outrage at something that actually deserves it instead of manufacturing it just to be politically correct and avoid talking about the real issues.

Sep 19, 2010, 7:53am Permalink
Dave Olsen

Chris: here is why I don't trust Andrew Cuomo or most other "career politicians" and you shouldn't either

http://www.villagevoice.com/2010-02-02/news/the-reinvention-of-andrew-c…

The article is long & a little dated, but a good read. The author doesn't seem to like Cuomo much personally, but points out some good things he's accomplished as AG of NY. 2 excerpts regarding campaign contributions:

"Scroll through the rolls of Andrew Cuomo's givers and you can find most of the permanent government, a bipartisan crowd of power brokers and fixers who are used to getting their way and are happy to pay for the privilege."
And
"Can you look at my filings and see a lot of the usual suspects?" says Cuomo. "Yeah. That's the campaign system we now have, which desperately needs to be changed."

So, Andrew, hows come you didn't give it back???????????

Sep 19, 2010, 8:37am Permalink
Chris Charvella

Dave,

I respect your position here. I don't like the way campaigns are financed at all and every time I get a chance I try and bring up the virtues of publicly funded elections. Take away the private funding and you just might end up with elected officials who don't owe people favors. Paladino is a documented member of the pay to play club.

JoAnne, I called them dormitories first (Paladino's word), but you didn't like that either so I figured I'd go all in. Paladino's position on abortion is exactly wha I said it was and the Miss France thing is a direct quote from one of his many e-mail exploits. When I get emails like that, maybe once a year, I delete them. I don't think racist jokes are funny and pornography involving farm animals isn't on my must see list.

I don't care what people do privately, personal opinions are personal, watch all the porn you want. I don't care. If you want to run for governor though, expect that your judgment will come into question if you've made questionable decisions.

Sep 19, 2010, 8:52am Permalink
John Roach

Chris,
Cumuo's record tells all. He staffed his department with patronage appointees both in the AG office in Albany and at HUD in Washington. That's certainly not new or even necessarily bad. His father was notorious for patronage. But he has shown no real reform, just more of the same.

And, his record at HUD showed he was a major part of the housing crises.

He is the ultimate Albany insider. For me, he is too much like his father.

Sep 19, 2010, 9:11am Permalink
Dave Olsen

The financing of elections is a bit of a conundrum to me, Chris. I see the merit of public funding of campaigns but also I think that anyone, including a corporation should have the right to financially support a candidate if they wish, transparency is the key and we don't do too bad of a job of that here in NY. I just won't vote for anyone who accepts large amounts of money from special interests, because I believe they are expecting something in return. Voter ignorance is abigger problem there. Nothing new about that. The lobbying after they get in office needs to go. The party patronage rewards of supporting issues and pork projects of those people who helped a party get power are also a big problem and cost us taxpayers; that's why we need to break up the "party" party and get to better state government system completely. Including term limits. Again, look at Nebraska

Sep 19, 2010, 9:14am Permalink
JoAnne Rock

Chris, it was not the word dormitories that I objected to. It was the implied meaning of "forced placement of the poor" that you are putting forth. Diminishing the experiences of those forced into internment camps, by comparing it to Paladino's Dignity Corps program, is more objectionable and hypocritical, than anything Paladino sent in an email.

Putting things in proper context is important. If your intention is to mislead people, then you have succeded, but I wouldn't call it a victory.

Like I said before, Cuomo's proposed Expanded Work Sharing Program can be viewed as an anti-taxpayer, Corporate welfare initiative advocating forced unemployment, resulting in a loss of productivity and paid vacations for employees courtesy of the State of NY by way of our tax dollars. Is that a technically correct observation? Yes. It that a fair assessment? According to your playbook...yes!

Sep 19, 2010, 10:11am Permalink
Charlie Mallow

Howard, I couldn't agree more. "Party politics are inherently corrupt and corrupting.". There will never be change as long as the two party system exists. The system manipulates people into fake anger and outrage to claim power for their own purposes. In New York, that purpose is getting your friends a job on the dole. There will never be cuts because both sides control their supporters by giving them state jobs!!!!

Sep 19, 2010, 10:23am Permalink
JoAnne Rock

Chris said:

"If you want to run for governor though, expect that your judgment will come into question if you've made questionable decisions."

A far better observation than your previous attempts that sounded more like a giggling schoolboy seeing a Playboy centerfold for the first time.

I agree with you 100%. There is no doubt in my mind that voters will compare their values against his actions before casting a vote for Paladino.

Sep 19, 2010, 10:29am Permalink
John Roach

JoAnne,
The last time anyone was forced into interment camps in the United States was under a Democrat, FDR, in 1942. He put thousands of Japanese Americans into them.

Sep 19, 2010, 10:36am Permalink
Howard B. Owens

We wouldn't need public financing if we did away with the two party system.

The two parties concentrate and funnel power, making it possible to buy whole parties. No single politician ever really gets bought. A single vote in the legislature is meaningless. It's the ability to buy blocks of votes by supporting either A) the right people in the party (who then dole out favors based on their status as party leaders) or the party as a whole, or the PACs that support the party as a whole) that make money in politics corrupting.

There's a little thing called the First Amendment that stands in the way of complete public financing.

Break the stranglehold the two parties have on the system and lot of problems would be solved.

Sep 19, 2010, 10:52am Permalink
Frank Bartholomew

The election process in NY is based on how NYC votes, get used to the term, Gov.Cuomo. Whether or not we like that idea, all the debate in the world won't change it.

Sep 19, 2010, 11:21am Permalink
Chris Charvella

From Andrew Cuomo's New NY Agenda

'Our first priority must be expanding the
number of full-time and good paying jobs. But while
we are waiting for the economy to recover, we should
promote the use of the New York Department of
Labor’s “Work Sharing” program to reduce layoffs and enable companies to keep their skilled workforce
intact. Under “work sharing” programs, participating
companies reduce the hours and pay of some of their
workers, but keep them employed—with benefits.
The State Unemployment Insurance Fund then allows
workers to receive some of the money that would
otherwise be paid out in unemployment insurance
benefits to compensate them for a portion of their
lost earnings. We should expand and actively
promote this program, which is a “win-win” that
enables companies to keep their skilled workforce
intact for when the economy recovers and keeps New
Yorkers in good jobs with benefits instead of joining
the ranks of the unemployed.'

JoAnne, you mean this, the program that already exists and keeps people employed with benefits instead of putting them on the unemployment rolls full time? Yeah, that's terrible.

Care to talk about rape and incest victims being forced to keep the rapists baby?

You're right about one thing, I'm giggling. I'm giggling because Paladino's candidacy is a farce.

Feel free to disagree with Andrew Cuomo's policies, your ideology isn't any concern of mine, but elevating a despicable train wreck like Paladino isn't the answer.

I sincerely hope that the Republican Party of New York State finds a way to regain their respectability. There are good people over there who truly want what's best for New York and, while I tend to disagree with them a s a matter of ideology, I respect their motives. Carl Paladino isn't worthy of that respect

Sep 19, 2010, 12:15pm Permalink
JoAnne Rock

If the program already exists, why is it in Cuomo's "New" New York Agenda? He stated it is an expansion of the program. I don't know enough about the program to know what is new and what is old. I'm not even categorically opposed to the program. I don't, however, think it is a good idea to pay people with tax dollars to sit home, basically on a paid vacation. If they are going to get paid for their lost time, why not have them just stay at work and have NYS just pay that portion of their wages? Full pay and benefits, for working a shorter work week in the private sector...sounds like a quasi-union policy.

I only brought the Work Sharing program up, as I said I would, to show you how the injection of spin can affect the perception of any program. If you want to disagree with one of Paladino's proposed programs,great, but stick to facts. When it is discovered that you are spinning the truth to fit your opinion, everything you say then becomes suspect. There are certainly enough things to hammer Paladino with that you don't have to make things up.

I am pro-choice, so I see no need to debate that issue.

As I have stated before...I am not a Paladino supporter.

I guess if you think telling the truth about what his proposed programs are rather than offering an outright lie just to support my opinion is elevating him...then I am guilty as charged.

My goal was to elevate the conversation...not Paladino...obviously I have failed in that regard.

Sep 19, 2010, 12:58pm Permalink
JoAnne Rock

and my point, Chris, is that telling the truth (especially to yourself) and keeping an open mind always elevates the conversation, no matter what the topic is.

If someone has to lie to justify their opinion, maybe it's time they re-evaluate their opinion.

You can hate Paladino's Dignity Corps program, but at least hate it based on it's actual elements. No matter how hard you try to convince yourself and others that he is planning to round up poor people and put them in prison camps...it just isn't so.

Not being willing to entertain someone else's ideas based on their personality, party affiliation or whatever is being closed minded and serves no useful purpose.

Sep 19, 2010, 2:09pm Permalink
Chris Charvella

edited: I don't suffer scumbags lightly and I'll do what it takes to make sure Paladino doesnt' get a sniff at the Governor's chair. If my comments make people take a closer look at Kinky Carl then I'm doing my job right. I love my state and the man would be a disaster.

Sep 19, 2010, 2:27pm Permalink
Mark Potwora

JoAnne your are wasting you time ,All Chris wants to do is call names,tell you how great Cuomo is and that he can do no wrong..Let him talk about Cuomo's record at HUD...Is Carl Paladino the answer,i don't know..I know that Cuomo isn't..I don't feel there is a choice for governor..Maybe not voting is what i will do..What names does Chris have for Kinky Clinton who likes to have sex with interns or Rangle who feels that he doesn't have to pay taxes or Kinky Eric Massa who sexually harassed male staff members or Kinky Barney Frank who hired male prostitutes,and don't forget the last Governor that i'm sure Chris supported Kinky Eliot Spitzer who had to quit for illegal hiring prostitutes.Do you call all them Kinky also Chris.....There are many on the Republican side also.It good to have a DEBATE on the issues,but not a name calling contest..

Sep 19, 2010, 3:04pm Permalink
Chris Charvella

All of those people you mentioned Mark, with the exception of Rangel got what they deserved for their behavior, and Rangel's turn is coming. Carl's going to get what he deserves as well.

You forgot John Edwards by the way.

Sep 19, 2010, 3:31pm Permalink
Dave Olsen

Mark and Joanne, I know I'm repeating myself, but..Choose a candidate who isn't Cuomo or Paladino and vote for them, encourage others as well. Any Gubernatorial candidate who gets at least 50,000 votes secures an automatic spot on the next ballot for the party he/she represents. What NY needs are more choices.

Sep 19, 2010, 4:21pm Permalink
JoAnne Rock

Mark, it wasn't a waste of time because I learned something. From here on out, I will be suspect of anything Chris posts...he admits that he would say anything to support his cause/opinion...including lie. I think that is a pretty arrogant attitude.

Dave, my mind is open. I understand and agree with what you are saying. I just haven't decided yet. Enjoyed reading the Cuomo article you posted BTW.

Sep 19, 2010, 4:44pm Permalink
John Roach

JoAnne,
I want to cut Chris a little bit of slack. He is the Democratic Party election chairman for Genesee County. His job is to promote his candidates, Cumuo and Barons, every chance he gets. He is not supposed to say anything positive about the other side.

I would not say he has lied. Spin things like a top, yes, but deliberate lies, no.

Sep 19, 2010, 5:10pm Permalink
JoAnne Rock

John, Spin is what I dislike most about politics and the media. It's just extra BS to wade through and a waste of my time. I think Chris enjoys spinning more than he enjoys promoting his candidates. I don't see how that is beneficial to the candidates or the process. I guess you are a better person than I John; I am not willing to cut him any slack.

Sep 19, 2010, 5:33pm Permalink
Chris Charvella

JoAnne wants to question my motives, I'm fine with that. I am exactly what John said I am and I'm proud of it. It is absolutely my job to get Democrats elected.

I'm proud of something else too. I will always question the effectiveness and policy decisions of politicians who I don't think are doing a good job and I will do my best to unseat legislators who are not doing their best to represent their constituents, but I have never questioned the character of the men and women I oppose. Until now.

Carl Paladino has changed the state of New York politics and not for the better. I would have disputed Rick Lazio's policies, I would have reminded people that he took TARP money from the American taxpayers when he was on the board of Goldman Sachs, but I would never have called him a low rent, no class, fetishist as I have called Paladino.

Carl Paladino is the salt in New York's wound. He is the problem disguised as the solution, an empty tug pulling his ship of fools. It has been said that in a democracy the people get the government they deserve and we deserve better than Carl.

If you can't make yourself vote for Andrew Cuomo, whatever the reason, I implore you to cast your vote on the Green, Conservative or Libertarian lines or write in the candidate of your choice because any vote for Carl Paladino is just another note in the death knell of democracy in our great state.

Sep 19, 2010, 9:59pm Permalink
JoAnne Rock

Chris,
It's not your motives I have a problem with...it's your tactics. In general, the overall notion that spin, mud-slinging and name calling is somehow good for the political process seems ridiculous to me. It's like those annoying pop-up ads that you can't shut off.

What voters, at least me anyway, want most is reliable information (facts) so they can make an informed voting decision. The very nature of your job makes the information you provide untrustworthy, in my opinion. I am by no means calling you an untrustworthy person.

Your job, and others like you, makes my job, as a voter more difficult. It's a game I have neither the time nor the inclination to want to play.

BTW, isn't Lazio still on the Conservative ticket with permanent ballot access hanging in the balance?

Sep 20, 2010, 3:40am Permalink
JoAnne Rock

One other thing Chris. John has suggested that you deserve to be cut a little slack because you are the Democratic Party election chairman in Genesee County and you are just doing your job.

In the interest of full disclosure, perhaps you should cut the voters a little slack and include your title in your posts here on The Batavian when you are working in an official capacity. Or alternatively, a little spinning top icon next to your name would suffice.

Sep 20, 2010, 4:24am Permalink
Charlie Mallow

Chris, I personally have no problem with you doing your job with the Democrats. The system might be broke beyond repair but, that’s how things work. Although, I have one rhetorical question. Who personally donates $54,940 to a politician and gets nothing in return? Look at that smile on that guy’s face…

Sep 20, 2010, 10:52am Permalink
Frank Bartholomew

Chris, I was listening to some talk radio this am, and many of Paladino's remarks were played. As a conscious voter, this man has no place in government, he is a bigot, has no clue how indigent people may have gotten that way, and is way out of touch with reality. So if your endorsement of Andrew Cuomo is spin, keep spinning, cause there is no doubt in my mind, Mr. Cuomo will be the next Governor of NY. And kudos to CM for taking time to get out and knock on doors, the last time I remember seeing Steve Hawley, was while I was a student at John Kennedy.

Sep 20, 2010, 11:49am Permalink

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