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January 12, 2009 - 1:47pm

Rural Democrats respond to Chris Lee's first week in office

posted by Philip Anselmo in congress, politics, Democrats, republicans, Chris Lee.

We received the following statement, issued by the Genesee, Livingston, Wyoming and Orleans Democratic Committee Chairs.

The Democrats of the rural counties of New York's 26th Congressional District (Genesee, Livingston, Orleans, and Wyoming Counties, or the GLOW region,) congratulate Chris Lee on being sworn in to represent the district in the 111th Congress.  While he is getting established in Washington, the GLOW county Democratic Committees note that Congressman Lee's plans to open offices in just Monroe and Erie Counties suggest there is a good chance that the rural areas of the district, which comprise a great deal of the 26th, may continue to be overlooked despite there being new representation in Congress.

Mr. Lee has issued a statement announcing that he has been named to the Financial Services Committee, the committee assignment he sought.  Unfortunately, membership on that committee precludes his serving on any of the other important committees in Congress.  (Most members of Congress sit on multiple committees, but members of the Financial Services Committee do not.)  "What our communities really need is a representative on the Agriculture Committee, like the 29th District will have with Eric Massa," says Harold Bush, Chair of the Wyoming County Democratic Committee.  The Genesee County Democratic Committee Chair, Lorie Longhany, says "I am concerned that Congressman Lee is in danger of simply perpetuating a long Washington tradition of being more interested in Wall Street than Main Street.  The fact that two of his very first votes were against closing pay discrimination loopholes -- he voted against the Lilly Ledbetter Fairness Act and the Paycheck Fairness Act -- makes me even more on my guard about his commitment to average people."

The other matter of great concern to the GLOW-region Democratic Committees is that Congressman Lee may not be supportive enough of passing the stimulus plan that is the first item on Congress' agenda.  "He never talks about a recovery plan without worrying out loud about 'fiscal responsibility,'" says Phil Jones, Chair of the Livingston County Democratic Committee.  "But 'fiscal responsibility' has become the Republican code phrase for obstructing what we really need in this district, which is jobs.  The Republicans had plenty of chances to be fiscally responsible when they were in control of Congress and the economy wasn't in dire straits.  But economic experts agree that temporary government spending is the only thing that can help turn around our economic situation."  The Orleans County Democratic Chair, Jeanne Crane, notes that public investment in infrastructure and green energy projects could benefit the 26th district for years to come.  "Smart public investments can lead to real, tangible assets for our community, assets that will attract jobs and growth.  We hope Congressman Lee understands that and will support the kind of stimulus package we need."

scott rytlewski
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what are these talking heads doing driving the partisan divide deeper lets look at what they said: Mr bush, complaining about Mr lees appointment to the finical service committee the job he campaign for and is qualified for, what does he know about farming first hand , and i believe he has meet Eric Massa and he knows he would be willing to cross bounders lines to help us in the 26th Lori logihaney, complaining that his first too votes where party line votes, earth to Leroy he was in office for a day why would he not vote party line, cross his own party on day one please Jean Crain what in the world that all meant is beyond me she must of read some talking point as she travailing around country she has always been out of touch with Orleans remember she endorse Howard Dean back in 2004 after he drop out of the race and is really not the chairman see party rules in election office Phil Jones complaining about partisan rhetoric by lee he sound just the same and finally what do they think they are going to accomplish by sticking pin in a doll on day one they should be ashamed of them self and dont attack me, defend your statements well howard i hope you get paid by the hit im pretty sure this will creat some buzz!!!!!
Daniel Jones
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Scott-Wow buddy, still bitter are we?
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Their county DEMOCRATIC Chairs, it's the most partisan job in the county....they exist to represent Democratic viewpoints and to get Democrats elected to office. They aren't going to put out a statement that would deviate from Democratic viewpoints. Earth to Albion, County party chairs are partisan, if they aren't partisan they shouldn't be serving in those positions.
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no Dan not bitter at all, but like i said defend there statements and yes chairs jobs a partisin but the people of the 26 should not have to suffer over there need to attack,mr lee is are congressman so why take those useless shots that will accomplish what? this letter will accomplish zero other than make the people in those county have to beg for any tax dollard
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Your economy sucks, your weather sucks, there's no jobs, the jobs that are there don't pay anything, taxes are higher than anywhere else in the country and the buildings and infrastructure are in ruins. Take a close look around the place is falling down around your ears. What keeps you there get the hell outta that armpit of the country and stop begging the government for handouts. The government created the economic crisis and now we're all suppose to beg and believe they are the most suited to fix it with an economic stupidous package. Yeah thats right I invented a new economic term "government economic stupidous package" which will use green energy projects which by the way are not economical - to get us out of the previous stupidous package economy caused by democratic socialism based economic policies that encouraged banks to lend money to low income families knowing that they could never repay the loans - genious. There ya go everyone gets a free house and everyone else pays for it, but wait uh that might not work but socialism ooops, I mean the government will fix it by building roads and bridges past all the foreclosed homes and solar industrial complexes in an area of the country that the sun never will shine.
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Thanks for the kind words, Richard. If I may be allowed a few in response... My economy is doing alright, and typically takes offense at insults from other people's economies, whether or not they are, in fact, more healthy and robust. That's like a well-toned jock walking on a treadmill upbraiding the chubby lump whose sprinting with all his might just beside him. Both are going nowhere. Snow makes for ugly parking in the city sometimes. But there's nothing like standing on the porch in the middle of a snowfall so dense all the lights are halos and all the homes barely there. Or standing outside at four o'clock in the morning when the whine of the Cat plow is the only sound, and the only color is white. What of the spring, in the Finger Lakes. Or the autumn, in farm country. My girlfriend and I live within our means. We both work. Judging by the regular deposits in the bank, we do, in fact, get paid something. We could always use more money, a better car, a nicer apartment. But we've got enough money to sometimes eat a nice meal out — we always eat nice ones in — once in a while buy a good microbrew and regularly feed the cats. Taxes. Eh. As for the infrastructure... I like ruins. They're a testament to the inexorability of change. Much around here attests to the transiency of industries and fashions. Not all of it has fallen however. A photographer who rents out studio space in an old button factory in Rochester once told me that he still finds needles in the cracks of the floors. I wouldn't trade that for any sterile complex in the country.
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Give me WNY over California (I grew up and lived most of my life in Calif.), Texas (I spent three miserable months in Texas in 1980) or Florida (been there - don't like it) any day.
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Philip, What. Are you in blahblah land. Howard, fished lake Fork http://www.ets-systems.com/ all weekend in seventy degree weather nothing miserable about it. The point of my comment was that the government caused the current economic crisis with socialistic policies and we shouldn't rely on the government to fix it with a so called stimulus package. So now the governmet owns the banks and billions are being given to the auto and insurance industry and everyone else and their brother has their hands out. WNY is going to remain economically depressed, while other areas of the country have more viable economies and offer a higher quality of life.
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I'm with you on that one Mr. Owens. I have had the good fortune to also live outside of NY for awhile. I came back for family, the four distinct seasons and the knowledge of other weather patterns. No Thank You to: Earthquakes on a regular 3-5 rictor (spelled wrong but you get the idea) scale quality, Mudslides, Forest Fires, Tornados, Hurricanes, Killer Heat for 10 months of the year or bugs that could carry my 16 month old off on their back. I like snow. Its pretty, fun to play in whether you are 4 or 40, and general good entertainment the first time its snows and everyone has to learn to drive in it again. Snow can be moved out of the way when needed. It is useful to my well and flower bed come springtime. Yes, I have to dress in many layers. I look like the kid from a Christmas Story. (Believe me when I say that I shouldn't try out as a swimsuit model. The more coverage I have, the better of the mental wellfair of society is.) I have to drag in firewood by the truckload into my house every day. Nothing however beats the heat you get from a woodstove though when a blizzard is roaring outside. I even cooked half the Christmas dinner on top of the stove this year. That was an interesting challenge. Ahh.... I could go on for hours about my love for WNY weather. You may want to ask me the question again in April when I dream of the first crocus or tulip of spring. For now, I am happy making snowangels in the yard with my kids. Marveling at the drifts in my yard that bring me back to the days of tunneling in the lawn. Cross country skiing with the kids in tow. Let us not forget the snowball wars or forts built for fun. How we didn't freeze to death I don't know but Hurray to snow. :)
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Scott, You sound so bitter. We get it: Your mom lost the chair of the Democratic Party in Orleans County. That doesn't mean you have to drag the party down. Like our President Barack Obama, we should be uniting during these times. More division is unnecessary. I know all four county chairs in the GLOW region. With Phil Jones at the helm, the Livingston County Democratic Committee has something special going on. They work together and they work hard. Jon Powers performed unbelievably well in Livingston County. They have great activists down there that deserve recognition. I know Lorie Longhany and the Genesee County Democrats quite well. They are working hard. Some work harder than others, but that's going to happen on any committee. Genesee County will be a little more blue this fall because of the Democratic efforts down there. Hank Bush and Wyoming County are working as well. They are in a very rural county and they have to fight every time during their local elections. Like the other counties, they have great activists too. One of them will be a fellow blogger with me on Chris Lee Watch. Then there is Orleans County. Scott, your criticism of Jeanne Crane for backing Howard Dean shows you what kind of Democrat you are. Howard Dean is the reason why we have a Democratic Congress and a Democratic president. Your mom was an effective chair, but she did not get along with a lot of people. If we are going to grow as a party, we need to bring more people together. Yes, we won elections with your mom, but we weren't growing as a party. That will change under Jeanne. I am on the Orleans County Democratic Committee so I will make sure that the party will grow. We need to increase our membership and make sure we have candidates for every seat. The GLOW coalition will help us all. There are some things that one county might do better than the rest. We can help each other and together, we can be a more powerful voice.
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robert you are so out of touch with the reality of orleans county pollitics you where a boy when Jean Crain was last chairman, you no nothing of the history and trust me im not bitter, and as for you being on the committee check that one out as the last past minutes refelect you where never approved only brought up and my reffrence to howard dean was to make a point that she was out of touch with reality not a slight of gov dean but to publiclly endorse someone who drop out of the race is embaresing but like i said dont attack me defend there statements you cant
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Richard: What is implied by "blahblah land" exactly? And why do you feel I belong there? What of anything that I said connotes the "blahblah" or otherwise meaningless? You said my economy sucks. I spoke about my economy. You said my weather sucks. I spoke about my weather. You said there are no jobs that pay anything. I spoke about my job that pays something. You said my region is in ruins. I spoke about its ruins. ***** In all honesty, Richard, I might rather be in Texas fishing right now. We're due for some seriously cold weather. They may have even said minus ten degrees for Thursday. So yeah, yanking carp in a tackle vest and sunscreen sounds like a better deal than scraping ice off my windshield and negotiating 35 mph wind gusts in a rusted out station wagon. No matter. I'll get out on the lake later this year. I'm also in wholehearted agreement with your comment that the stimulus packages we've already put together and the others we're currently readying probably aren't the answer. Analgesics like that will only get us so far. You can mute the pain of the punch to the gut, but if it hits hard enough, something inside has likely ruptured. Let's see how long we can slowly bleed.
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Scott, I was a boy when Bill Clinton was elected President of the United States. That doesn't mean I don't know anything about Bill Clinton. I know plenty about Jeanne Crane. I also know more about the Democratic Party in Orleans County than you think I do. Just because I wasn't a part of it doesn't mean I don't know the history. Talking to people who were there and talking to people who know about the committee helps. I have been told multiple times that I am back on the committee. I don't see why it should be so difficult to put me on the committee.
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Philip, BlahBlah land is like a a bad acid trip it must be near LaLa Land where struggling through the long cold winter you find yourself outside in a whiteout at 4 o'clock in the mourning looking at the street lights and think wow man its beautiful I really like it here. Then you find needles in the cracks in the floor of a run down building and think way cool this place is alright all is well, then you wake up and have to shovel the drive way so you can get to work.
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well your right it shouldnt be so difficult but if your not in the minutes your not in the minute. you should have passed a petition like most people do i did and i was on death door 3 time this summer. if you know about democratic party of orleans you should be calling for dave greens resignation from leadership he as disloyal as they come, and it funny you say to know so much as a boy growing up in ridgeway a town that never had a committee member on it the whole time, crain was the chair makes me wonder who you talk to and if you are back on the committe why havent you attended any meetings but like i said please defend there statements, dont attack me send me a email if you want to carry this discussion on this is not the place
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Scott, I told myself that I wouldn't respond to you again, but before you make accusations about others political acumen, why was Harold Suhr thrown off the ballot? Oh yeah, his petitions we're messed up by whoever his campaign team and management was, I remember reading a press release saying to contact you as the campaign manager. I bring this up because you seem to hold your "experience" over Robert's head and the current chair's previous endorsement of Howard Dean. I sense a growing amount of jealousy. I think that the only reason why you even responded to this thread was because Jeanne Crane (whom I admittedly don't know), is engaging in a positive activity that will grow the party and you know it Don't go on the offensive and then tell others not to attack either. I'm not perfect, neither are you, none of us here are "guru's".
Daniel Jones
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Richard, If your so hot on Texas then please stay off of this website, it's clear that you have no interest in our affairs here in Western New York anyway.
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I'm not being defensive your the one being defensive. Giving me the cold shoulder Mr. Jones - Brrrrrr gettin a little chilly better bundle up.
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I prefer the cold weather, I'm aware that some wimps just can't handle it. Don't you have anything better to do other than patrolling this website being the alternative term for a donkey?
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Scott, I would have passed a petition, but my father had two heart attacks right in the middle of petition season. My priorities were set at that point. By the way, your mom put me on the committee originally without me having to pass any petitions. So I find it odd that you are now raising questions about me being on the committee. I'm not going to call for anyone's resignation. I did call for Mike Hadick's resignation, but obviously that fell on deaf ears. The only questions I have are about your loyalties to the Democratic Party. You have a pattern of throwing fellow Democrats under the bus. You threw me under the bus for calling for Mike Hadick's resignation. You now are throwing four county chairs under the bus because they came together as a coalition and spoke out on Chris Lee's first week in office. If you want to be a Democrat, you should start acting like one. You come off as a sore loser because your mom didn't win re-election. That's too bad. This party is bigger than individuals. If your mom (and you) want to do what is good for the party, then you will put aside your differences with some of the committee members and work for the betterment of the party.
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Robert and dan you are really inmature my mother has nothing to do with it and please when you address me leave my mother out of it like i said defend there statements that all, you cant because they are absurd!!!!!!!!!!! all those party chairs did was show there lack of depth into the real world look at it why would chris lee vote against his party 1 day in office the vote was pure party line why burn that bridge esspecilly when the bill passed so you got what you wanted but you had to be classless and want more what did the erie or niagra and monroe county chairs say nothing maybe they should think befor they act
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I think these posts are going way off base now!
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tom your right all i ask for was someone to defend the statements in the letter but the two uts got personal oh well and the one about the miserable place we live i have no clue where they came from
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Posted by Tom Gilliatt about 20 minutes ago I think these posts are going way off base now! Way off base, through the outfield, over the wall, up the stadium stairs, down through the tunnels, past the concession stands and through the parking lot.
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Scott-The statements were defended, you got personal.
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I'll say it one more time too, the county chairs exist to represent the viewpoints of the Democratic party on the national level, if Chris Lee votes against them then it is the duty of the county Democratic chair to make a statement. It shows strength, viability and plays the role of the loyal opposition.
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dan what playbook did you read that one from but i must say its a good one, so why didn't any of the 3 big county chairs say anything? and where did you ever defend there statements because there chairs they can say what they want all politics are local that why we are in the shape we are orleans was much stronger when we had Congressman La Falce and no genessee that was evident in the primary (i mean that in a redistrcting way(
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I'm not sure why, its their own prerogative. We need to let voters in the GLOW area know that we exist and are fighting for them, hence the statement. What primary are you referring too?
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duh john lafalce gave alice the break she needed in niagra and erie and orleans as we got 20 phones calls about the robo calls as niagra got a huge buzz also well i must say dan we sure creat buzz but this one not as good as the hunting one
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Scott, Why should the GLOW coalition follow what the big three counties do? The GLOW coalition decided that they were going to issue a joint press release on Chris Lee's first week in office. There is nothing wrong with that. Just because Erie, Monroe and Niagara counties didn't doesn't mean it was wrong of the GLOW coalition to do so. I will say the same thing I said of the John LaFalce endorsement when it occurred. LaFalce represented part of Erie, Monroe, Niagara and Orleans. He didn't represent Genesee, Livingston and Wyoming counties. They might have known who LaFalce was, but his name didn't mean much. So while that endorsement might have been big news in the four counties LaFalce represented, it was not big news in the other counties. For the record, Jon Powers fared better in Genesee County than he did in Orleans County. The reason for that wasn't John LaFalce. The reason for that is because the Orleans County operation was rather weak.
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rather weak, like when you didnt show up to canvass after you bragged to all you would be there or was it his not coming to the fair and gary kent bad mouthing him, we did what ever he asked and you are way off to think lafalce did nothing for alice here i saw it frist hand you didnt and just remember Jean crains biggest complaint about sally was Jon Powers so regardless of who did what that yesterdays news
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I bragged about canvassing? That is news to me. Considering you haven't had a conversation with me in several months, I find it surprising that you can accuse me of bragging about canvassing. I don't brag about canvassing. I do it. LaFalce did nothing for Alice in this district. LaFalce's impact was limited because in three of the counties, no one was very familiar with him. The three counties he wasn't known in are counties with large Republican enrollments. I don't really care what Jeanne Crane thought about Jon Powers. Jon was supported by all seven counties for a reason. Jeanne is entitled to her own opinions. I still believe that Jon was the best candidate for the job. But I'm not going to sit here and sulk about something that was settled four months ago.
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For post like this maybe this here would be better http://www.thebatavian.com/forum/1543 Be this is only my opinion.
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robert you emailed the whole committee and said you where going to be there on sat morning so half of the committee that cant stand you called and said they where not coming, and low and behold you where a no show, just like the other college kid mcphearson, so dont act like you are gods gift your not and to minalmize the impact of the congressman show your need to be the big mouth and know it all i ansewrd the phone that day so i had frist hand knowlege of the effect and called over to lockport and got a similar story so your wrong
Robert Harding
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Scott, I looked back through my e-mail (I have an e-mail history) and found the e-mails in question. I wasn't bragging at all. All I said was that I was going to be there on August 2 to canvass. Why didn't I show up on August 2? At the last minute, I was told that my cousin was getting married. So that is where I spent my day. As for bragging, if this is bragging, I would like to know what your definition of bragging is:
Sara and all, I will be there. I heard about last weekend's event in Warsaw. The more we have come out, the better it will be. And the more we have, the quicker we can beat the heat.
That was the e-mail I sent. Doesn't sound too arrogant to me. Look Scott, I'm not going to keep playing your little mindless games. I don't act like God's gift. I'm not trying to minimize the impact of a congressman, but I will deal in real terms. LaFalce represented only a portion of this district. He didn't represent all of it. So his impact was limited to that part of the district. You had first-hand knowledge? I didn't see you at LaFalce's press conference with Kryzan in Orleans County. So if there was an effect, you weren't even part of it. I'm not wrong. You are just living in that dream world of yours where Mike Hadick is the bastion of Democratic politics. Have fun with that.
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i wasn't at lafalce event because my ride had a emergency so i had no driver, "I will be there" and you didnt have the coutosey to call sara who was depending on you, she was told you won't show so your marriage story was viewed as BS and as for passing a petittion for the committee your family excuse would be exceptable but you where at three diffrent events in bufflo during that time and you only had to go out and get 15 signature not really time comsuming just a bit of work cant remember the events but remember laughing about your petitions getting dusty so now that you brought up hadick why does your friend that got arrested for the same thing and convicted get a free pass by you no call for his resignation no double standar there ah hes a supervisor and party chair
Robert Harding
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Scott, Why are you hung up on things that happened over five months ago? The truth is that Sara called me that morning and asked if I would be there. I told her my last minute story and she was fine with it. She understood. I had a good rapport with Sara (I think) and she never mentioned it going forward. I was at three events in Buffalo, eh? Big surprise. I'm a blogger. I was at a lot of events this summer. But when my dad had his heart attacks, I scaled back on what I attended. My dad had his heart attacks during the petition season. I would have passed petitions either way. And I would have gotten more signatures than needed to avoid any challenges. Obviously that is a lesson you have yet to learn. My "family excuse" will have to be acceptable. If anyone wants to take it up with me, they can. Period. I'm assuming you are referring to Hank Bush. Yes, Hank Bush was arrested for DWI. So was Mike Hadick. That is the only thing they have in common. Hank Bush doesn't have nude photos on the Internet. Mike Hadick did/does. Hank Bush didn't get arrested for allegedly stealing money from the village. Mike Hadick did. Hank Bush wasn't involved in a cover up about a police officer's DWI. Mike Hadick was. When Hadick was arrested for DWI, I called for his resignation because things were starting to pile up. The DWI was only a few months after everything with the cover up went down. Then the nude pictures came out and that only strengthened my argument for calling on Hadick to resign. Then when more of the story started to surface in March, I re-stated my call for his resignation. At that time, I was told by your mother to "stop killing the freakin' Democrats", even though I was only targeting Hadick. Look, you introduced me to Hadick on two occasions. I find him to be a nice guy. But I think he has a lot of problems and too many issues going on and he needs to step down. We are Democrats. We should expect more from our own than what we have gotten from Mike Hadick.
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you are so predictable its funny really, i could care less, but you need to faricate story to make your self feel good so for once in your life do something tangible other than make belief and why would you use someone name is it lack of class or maturity
Robert Harding
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Scott, Nothing I said was a fabrication and you know that. Why would I make any of this up? I have done plenty. I do more than sit at home and play kingmaker. Why would I use names? Because I'm not a coward. You are the one who constantly complains about people not using names online and not using their names to post. I don't lack class or maturity. I won't jeopardize my intelligence by continuing this conversation either.
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this is so predictable this is like a donkey and a stick and a carrot you just figured it out the carrot is not for the taking
Robert Harding
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No, this is more like pin the tail on the donkey. When it is your turn to go, you just keep running into the wall. Come on Scott. Can't defend your boy Hadick anymore? I came out with a pretty strong argument against him and you had no rebuttal.
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A circus of socialist liberal democrats. Change you can believe in? Not.
Robert Harding
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Now that we have hijacked this thread from its original goal, I hope we can get back to the post and the original topic. The GLOW chairs bring up great points about Lee that deserve to be discussed. Lee's appointment to the Financial Services Committee is something he reportedly sought. He claimed in a recent guest essay in the Democrat and Chronicle that he "fought" for that appointment. But he never said how that appointment would help the 26th district. I agree with the chairs that serving on the Agriculture Committee would be more beneficial to us. However, Lee doesn't know anything about farming. That is why he really doesn't have rural appeal. He wouldn't contribute anything of importance to the Agriculture Committee, but being on such a committee would show a commitment to the rural roots of this district. I would like to hear why Lee thinks that being appointed to the Financial Services Committee will be helpful to the 26th district. Until then, I question how serving on this committee will benefit us.
Robert Harding
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Richard, You are making a lot of the same mistakes the Republicans up here make. You can't be a liberal AND a socialist. Being a liberal is associating yourself with the liberal ideology. Being a socialist means you align yourself with the socialist ideology. You can't be both. It is impossible.
Daniel Jones
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Richard-Can I ask you why your on this website?
Daniel Jones
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Scott-Stop changing the subject, Democrats need to hold Chris Lee accountable.
scott rytlewski
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dan, i agree but with solid arguments not questioning party line votes on day one that ignorant the dems got what they wanted from the vote and that was a approvale, so by attacking him all that does is give him 2 yrs to think of a defence for next election season, it would of been better to let those vote fly under the radar and then question him when he has no clue who lilly leadbetter is 200 vote later 600 day passed the game is chess not checkers and im not the one changing the subject
Robert Harding
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Scott, You came on here and started attacking all four county chairs who took part in the GLOW press release. How can you say you didn't change the subject? Instead of making this about Chris Lee, you chose to attack Democrats. We need to call Chris Lee out on his votes. If we wait to call him out on his votes like his votes against the Lilly Ledbetter Fairness Act and the Paycheck Fairness Act then they will not be relevant. He voted against those two pieces of legislation last week. That was the right time to criticize him for it. This week there will be different issues. Next week there will be more. As time goes on, there will be different issues to discuss. We need to criticize him now to keep him on his toes. If we just give him a free ride, that will do nothing. The more people hear these criticisms, the stronger our case is in 2010.
scott rytlewski
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you are in a fantasy land if you think any freshman congressman would stand up to his party on day one, by doing it now make you look like a radicle to most and you and i both no 2/3 of this distric have no clue what lilly ledbetter is and will never know, but all they see is the public critizm of a newly elcted congressman on day one, its like negative campaigning its turn people off wouldn't it look better to give a 3 month report with a real history of leaving his distric behind
Robert Harding
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Negative campaigning? Criticizing your congressman for voting against fair pay equates to negative campaigning? I don't think so. All members of Congress should be held accountable. They shouldn't get a free ride just because they are new.

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