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May 29, 2018 - 10:59am

Today's Poll: Should children be separated from their parents who cross the border illegally?

posted by Howard B. Owens in polls.
Lisa Woltz
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Then again, they shouldn't be allowed to cross at all. Illegal is illegal. Enough with granting asylum when they're already in another "country". Illegal border crossers should be sent back IMMEDIATELY. We have to take care of our service members and homeless first instead of this "Lottery" crap!

jeff saquella
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totally agree with lisa 100%

Brian Heick
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No, I don't see illegal immigration as a terrible crime, just people looking for better opportunity in their lives. It seems that the line between vicious criminal and petty criminal has been blurred with our presidents constant rhetoric of bad hombres coming in the country. Parents should never be separated from their children regardless of the situation unless a terrible crime has been committed.

Also, if someone is coming to the US seeking asylum, I don't think that being separated is going to concern them if they are worried about the safety of their family.

Mary Finnegan
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They should separate all the children from those who do not understand that we are all one, we are spiritual beings and have no right to divide the planet. There is no "Us" and "them." and children who are taught that some are illegal should be taken out of that environment and shown the whole universe is interconnected.

Candace Bower
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It is not realistic to say.."open the borders" . Where are we getting money for teachers to teach students who do not know English, and money for room and board and jobs for these people whom Mexico will not even take in?. We have our own veterans and poor who need help before them. it is nice to be idealistic, but you must also be realistic.

Tim Miller
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Keep in mind this newly instituted policy separates children from parents who are coming and applying for asylum. COMING TO THE U.S. BORDER AND REQUESTING ASYLUM IS NO CRIME. Seriously - it is not against the law for people from other countries to knock on our door and say "I'm in danger of dying back there."

This is a heartless policy not required by law - the law declares that asylum-seekers are to be given a chance to argue their case... there is nothing in the law that specifies the kids be stripped from their parents' arms. Someone in the Administration stated that this policy is "disincentive" to trying to find asylum here. Now THAT is one heartless SOB who can make that declaration.

John Roach
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They broke the law. The parents should be held in detention until sent back, but the kids should not be locked up with them. Reunite them when sent back.

Roberta White
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I was raised on the Mexican border. My fathers' job was to deport illegal immigrants. I saw things first hand growing up. I learned some things.

I learned that women and children beg on the bridges for nickels to afford food to eat. I learned that they die every day doing this.
I learned about the discrimination and poverty in their society, and I know that they are certainly not the only country in peril.
I learned that our government kills innocent people every day who try to enter this country for a chance at a better life.
I learned that these families are trying to break free from a horrible life and bring happiness to their homes.
I learned the names of some of those kids, who were equally brilliant and capable of becoming outstanding contributions to our society.
I learned that there IS a legal way for them to come here, but it often requires too much time and money. Some families have children waiting on medicine and education.

I know that if a family risks everything, giving up what little they have, to find an opportunity, that we are equally deserved, let them.

What would you rather do about it? Send an innocent child home with their family to waste away and never become the potential being that we can help them become?
Keep them in facilities without their families, on taxpayer support, which only raises them in a non-nurturing environment?

Can you imagine coming here on what you have in your pockets? With a child no less? What gave you the right to be here over another being? What did you do to deserve our country? We came from immigrants. We came from people just like them. They built us. You should honor those who come here and contribute.

Go stand on our borders and then tell them no. I don't think a person would have the heart to do such a thing. I would hope not.

I say that if they come here and make a life without crime, let them be free. We were afforded the same opportunity, as were our ancestors. We shouldn't be so entitled. Why aren't we inviting families in? They are entrepreneurs and workers that we need. Maybe we need to be more concerned about making changes to the allowances, and programs, and opportunities that we can provide to them instead of spending our taxes on building walls and starting wars. The money is spent either way. We will never win the immigration battle, but we can be smarter about it.

John Roach
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Roberta, I think legal immigration should be increased. But sorry, I want people who can support themselves. We can not even take of our veterans let alone millions of people coming her illegally who need to go on welfare.

Roberta White
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Illegal immigrants who have taken a chance here are more grateful for our country than we ever could be. Imagine the perseverance they have. I was recently reading about a mother who came here 3x with nothing to be with her children. That takes guts, hard work, risk, everything. I want my country to be made of people like that. People who have pride and compassion.

bud prevost
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"I learned that our government kills innocent people every day who try to enter this country for a chance at a better life" - written by Roberta White.
While I may agree with you on certain points, please cite your sources for this disturbing claim. You are saying that the US government is murdering at least 365 people a year(every day). I lived in the southwest for most of the 90's, and I saw some horrible instances of Immigration "doing their job", but sanctioned killing, by the US border patrol, was not commonplace.
Now, that being said, I am all for our government exterminating illegal immigrants that kill here in the United States. No deportation, no years of appeals, no cost of endless commitment.
As for children being separated from the parents, been happening forever. I worked at a nice hotel in Phoenix as a night manager, in the early 90's. I witnessed a couple, who had 3 kids at the sitter, taken into custody at our hotel, and deported without their kids. Guess who snuck back? Dad! but he couldn't get his kids, as they were US citizens born here. Clinton administration was the one in power then.

Howard B. Owens
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Dave Alvin, California Snow.
Roberta White
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John, how can a person with no social security number go on welfare? They do NOT qualify. They have contributed more than 100 billion dollars to our public benefits that they cannot receive, in the past decade alone. They contribute more in payroll taxes than they have ever taken out. They paid 10.6 billion dollars into our taxes in 2010 and it only continues to increase. Our economy thrives on immigrant workers. The fact is that our social security has been supported by them for more than a decade. If we do not have immigrant workers, as of today, social security ends in 2037. Not even legal immigrants qualify for benefits for at least their first 5 years and most never even consider applying. Most people actively invested in our economy see them purely as investments into our countries future as taxpayers and workers. Not to mention removing 8 million people from our workforce, removes them as taxpayers and consumers and leaves unwanted jobs that we cannot fill. Many Americans want them in our economy, at least anyone with half a brain, but we do not provide them with legal ways for sponsorship.

Roberta White
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I think you underestimate the number of immigrants that are led to die in our deserts and left to drown on our banks. I have met a lot of immigration agents and I have no respect for any of them. We even let them die in our jails. Do you seriously think that we have such a racist population that is so entitled, and we arm our patrols with automatic rifles, boats, helicopters, and we don't shoot to kill? That we don't intervene? We teach our officers that these are drug smugglers, every last one of them, bad criminals. I've never heard an agent say anything nice about a single immigrant and I have met too many to count. In fact, quite the opposite. The documented things I have seen would never allow me to believe that we have an ounce of respect for them as human beings in our system. I guess you didn't have that experience, but I know, without any doubt.

Mary Finnegan
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Roberta, it is time for humanity to get rid of borders, poverty and rule by power. Why do we put up with class states, the inequality of the masses, wars and children suffering?

The only reason government works the way it works, money operates the way it operates, and authority rests where it rests is because everyone has agreed to pretend that that’s moral. In actuality, government, money and authority are all man-made conceptual constructs and the collective can choose to change them whenever it wants. The only reason this hasn’t happened in our deeply dysfunctional society yet is because the plutocrats who rule us have brainwashed us.

. It’s about power, and the unexpected trouble that existing power structures are having dealing with the public’s newfound ability to network and share information about what is going on in the world.
Transcendence is no longer a metaphysical concept. It is becoming reality. Science and spirit are entangling. Individuals are beginning to sense their fundamental interconnectedness with creation. As all of humanity abandons the dualistic thinking that has divided mind from matter, and the physical from the spiritual, I explore the incredible impact that understanding is having on our world and daily life.
Individuals are beginning to sense their fundamental interconnectedness with creation. At this station of spiritual evolution, You see that others are equal to yourself in every way; their feelings are just as valid as your own. Love, joy, acceptance, gratitude are spreading like a virus. You realize the complete irrelevance of hierarchical organizations: the military, governments, and corporations.
I am aware of my spiritual nature and I am in mind-to-mind contact with others who are aware. That's you, dear Roberta.All those to who power is sin.

Ed Hartgrove
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Mary Finnegan: You wrote, "... it is time for humanity to get rid of borders...".

I'm left assuming that you don't own any property, Mary. As far as I know, there's only 2 types of property in our country. Private, and, public.

Of course, public property is "owned" by all of us, the taxpayers. That would include all of the "gov't" buildings and the land they sit on, city/county/state/national lands/forests, etc., roadways, etc.

Private property is, on the other hand, "owned" by people who bought it. And, just like "countries", private property has "borders". Some people put fences around their property. Some, like those who live in the city, don't fence theirs in. The just have front/side/back yards.

I certainly don't want people to be able to just walk across the "border" and take up residence wherever they please. Are you willing to let people build a home on YOUR private land? How about 4 or 5 families building homes on YOUR private property? After all, if you don't believe in "borders", why would you believe in anybody owning any property?

Or, would you rather have people come here and just "squat" on "public property"? Maybe they can just start building their residences in Letchworth Park, or, Kibbe Park. How about a half-dozen families just take over Centennial Park. Or, maybe in the median of the NYS Thruway. Heck, there's room for several houses on the land currently occupied by the NYS Troopers. Hey, if they just built homes on the high school property, their children wouldn't have far to walk to school.

Yes, I'm being a little facetious, Mary. But, the very moment someone crosses the "border", they're either on "public" land (which, I'm guessing, most "illegal immigrants" aren't going to be on the roadways, to begin with), or, they're on private property. I certainly wouldn't want hundreds/thousands of people traipsing across my "bought and paid for" property.

I get it, that people want to come "here" for a better way of life. But, in my opinion, there has to be some orderly way to do it. There's over a BILLION people in India, alone. I'm gonna assume that probably half of them would love to come here, if they could. And, China. And, North Korea. And, Haiti. And, Venezuela. And Honduras. And, Mexico. And.... That goes for the populations of many, many countries. There's people in impoverished countries that'd sell their children, if they thought it'd result in their being able to live here. It just isn't feasible to let just anyone who wants to come here do so. I find it hard to believe people just don't get that.

Howard B. Owens
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In response to Mary Finnigan,

Homo sapiens have walked on this planet for somewhere between 200,000 and 300,000 years (for a long time scientists thought 200K but recent discoveries put it closer to 300K). For the vast, vast majority of that time, homo sapiens (humans) were hunter-gathers, migratory. To the degree they were warlike is disputed by anthropologists but there is evidence of murder, mass murder, and wars.

Prior to the discovery of agriculture 10,000 to 12,000 years ago, humans lived relatively long and healthy lives compared to their more civilized progeny up until the industrial revolution.

What life was better -- living constantly exposed to the elements, living just to live (constant hunt for food, clothing, and shelter) -- or being able to kick back on the sofa, eat a meal you didn't have to dig up or kill yourself, and watch Netflix -- is up to each individual to decide, I guess.

Since the industrial revolution, we've gone from a world where 95 percent of the entire population of the planet has gone from significant poverty to less than 5 percent. Most of that gain has come in the past couple of decades. We've cured or reduced the potential mortality of numerous diseases. Most people today lead lives of comfort that Rockefeller would have envied. Fewer people today die in wars and in most parts of the world, fewer people are murdered. By countless measures, life is better now than it has ever been, unless, of course, you think being a hunter-gather was more your cup of tea (but, of course, they didn't have tea back then).

All of the improvements over the past 200 years or so didn't come from "transcendence," or Karl Marx, or Mao, or Stalin. It came from free markets and free minds. The rule of law and capitalism have saved humanity from much of the brutality of the world.

We are living in the greatest time to be alive in human history.

But think about it -- the planet is 4.5 billion years old, humanity no more than 300K, civilization, no more than 12K, recorded history less than 4,000 years, and the Enlightenment (which unleashed most of humanity's improvements) came only about 200 years ago.

Our grip on all that we've accomplished, even our own existence, is tenuous.

Writer Steve Pinker is a good resource for anybody interested in this topic.

As for immigration, I begrudge nobody's ambition for wanting to improve the lives of themselves and their family members. Our current immigration laws are harmful to ourselves and to the people who want to come here and help us improve our economy. Anti-immigrant attitudes run counter to everything this country is supposed to stand for.

Mary Finnegan
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No one can own the Earth.

Why do you men argue with statistics and limited beliefs the fact that humans are spiritual beings and most of us, especially the young, are seeing the end of separation, reshaping the entire human experience from one that operates on ego and disconnection to one that has our soul living and driving our experience. No need to worry yourself about aliens living in the middle of the Trueway. Wake up! Enlightenment does not allow for poverty, certainly not the wealth disparity of the small percentage who are murdering the planet while others die from WAR, starvation and preventable diseases. Certainly, we need organization, such as universal income, health care and education, but why are you, Ed and Howard, arguing spirituality with facts and science? Limited beliefs?

Authority is sin; power is pure evil.
Government, money and authority are all man-made conceptual constructs and the collective can choose to change them whenever it wants. The only reason this hasn’t happened in our deeply dysfunctional society yet is because the plutocrats who rule us have brainwashed us.
. It’s about power, and the unexpected trouble that existing power structures are having dealing with the pub

Without need of a military, government, borders and bureaucracy, each follows their bliss.

Technology has given us the means to build a worldwide movement grounded in universal human values and harmonic individualism. Today with internet the world opens, the barriers fall, separation ends, union starts, collaboration explodes. Access to more information than ever before brings about a population that no longer tolerates the abuse and exploitation of one another and the planet.

Especially young people are riding a wave of new energy, simply by the changing vibrations; children see what is happening in the world in a very different light, because power and greed experiences are being rejected worldwide!

YOUTHQUAKE quantumQUAKE Free of social conditioning, the young have yet to form egos, prisons of judgments, labels and rules. During the next generation, we will be one million times more technologically capable than we are right now. One million times —  in a single generation.

As we evolve into the post scientific era, we have been witnessing the birth of a truly global culture
Self dissolves into a unified consciousness that includes all of humanity as each loses its individuality in favor of a collective,

Global mind-to-mind interactions are entering a phase of super-exponential growth that will result in a transformation of humankind to a far superior spirituality, becoming connected in a seamless web of interaction, beneath the radar of the corporations and governments, as a Planetary Collective Consciousness.

Authority is sin; power is pure evil.
government, money and authority are all man-made conceptual constructs and the collective can choose to change them whenever it wants. The only reason this hasn’t happened in our deeply dysfunctional society yet is because the plutocrats who rule us have brainwashed us.
. It’s about power, and the unexpected trouble that existing power structures are having dealing with the public’s newfound ability to network and share information about what is going on in the world.

POST MATERIAL SCIENCE
reinforcing our latent capacity to be Supernatural. Magick is as real as science. Intuition is as valid as mathematics; emotions are as solid as the physical.

Self dissolves into a unified consciousness that includes all of humanity as each loses its individuality in favor of a collective,

A relatively small, but rapidly growing percentage of humanity is experiencing within our selves the breakup of the old egoic mind patterns! The fundamental Oneness of all!!! The emergence of a higher dimension of consciousness:

Steadily through the expression of the innate tendency of the human spirit towards complete harmony with the transcendental order, is linking through consciousness into a Singularity. Each connected to Source, as a whole, as ONE, the world is lifting out of the dualistic thinking that has divided mind from matter, and the physical from the spiritual.

Mary Finnegan
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Please do not respond with cold, hard reality. That [email protected]#* doesn't work anymore

Howard B. Owens
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I provide information backed by empirical data. I can provide citations if needed. All there is is cold, hard reality.

Mary Finnegan
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Which is why you are stuck in a cold, hard place. Me, I'm bringing heaven to earth

Howard B. Owens
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I'm stuck nowhere.

Ed Hartgrove
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Howard. You may as well give up on trying to explain cold, hard reality, to people who live in la-la land.

Look!
Up in the air!
It's a bird!
It's a plane!
It's ... Pie in the sky!

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