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May 3, 2017 - 11:13pm

Revitalize, renew, rebuild, revive, call it what you will, Resurgence is coming to Batavia

Are you ready for a resurgence in Batavia? It's coming.

Well, at least Resurgence Brewing Company of Buffalo is coming.

The popular Buffalo-based brewery is going to be part of the revitalized and rebuilt Ellicott Station (the former Della Penna property) on Ellicott Street on the edge of Downtown Batavia.

"We're obviously ecstatic about the project and seeing it come to fruition," said City Manager Jason Molino. "We're incredibly excited about Resurgence, a reputable brewery coming to the community and bringing a new, kind of niche beer, sour beer. I think it's going to help complement what we're trying to do downtown, bringing in more dining and entertainment options for people."

We've known for a long time that Ellicott Station would include a brewery and brew pub. What we didn't learn until today is that the company moving into the space would be a brand that has rapidly grown in popularity in Buffalo.

Resurgence will open a restaurant, a brew pub and beer garden that will serve their full line of beers, and a brewery that will produce sour beer, a kind of beer that has only recently started to reach the East Coast market.

Because its brew process is different and the yeasts involved can't mix with the other brews, Resurgence was looking for a location separate from their current Buffalo location.

In fact, Batavia had been on the map for Resurgence owners Chris and Jeff Ware for a long time, according to developer Sam Savarino. Savarino said he had heard the Wares had been looking at Batavia as a possible location for a brewery if not a restaurant and pub. After his company won the RFP for the Ellicott Station project, he contacted them and a deal came together very quickly, he said.

"They’re good people," Savarino said. "They’re dedicated to their craft and they care about the product they produce. That’s evident to anybody who has bought their products or visited their premises in Buffalo. As far as a brewer or retail tenant, they are a very good bet."

The Resurgence name comes from the founders' own belief in the resurgence and renaissance of Buffalo, which they've been a part of over the past several years.

Jeff Ware, company president, sent over a statement about how pleased the company is to find a location in Batavia.

"Resurgence Brewing Company is excited to announce their new brewing and biergarten location in Batavia," Ware said. "The brewery will anchor Savarino's Ellicott Station Development and help with the revitalization of downtown Batavia. With the help from New York State from Homes and Community Renewal (state pass-through of the Community Block Development Grant money mentioned below), we will be able to move project one step closer to reality."

Savarino got involved in the project after a third party told him about Batavia looking for proposals to redevelop the Della Penna property and that Savarino Companies might be a good fit.

The company has been involved in a number of revitalization projects in Buffalo. They redeveloped several buildings in the Cobblestone District of Buffalo, renovating buildings and developing mixed-use projects. They redeveloped 500 Seneca Street, a large factory converted to mixed use. They also redeveloped River Landing in Buffalo, which was a brownfield project.

Savarino said when he looked at the Della Penna property, he checked off the qualifications: A distressed property with possible environmental contamination; a distressed census tract with 35 percent unemployment; a median income that is 50 percent of the area's median income; on the edge of a downtrodden downtown. 

"I joked with my friends that it had several strikes against it, so it's just the kind of project we like to take on," Savarino said.

The project will be more than just a restaurant and brewery. There will also be office space -- Savarino said he's in negotiations with possible tenants that he can't disclose yet -- and a 47-unit, four-story apartment complex.

The apartments will be especially great for Downtown, Molino said. Not only will tenants be just steps from Resurgence, within a block's walk are dining and drinking options such as City Slickers, Bourbon & Burger Co., O'Lacy's Irish Pub and Center Street Smoke House, Main Street Pizza Co., and T.F. Brown's.

"Those 47 market-rate apartments fit the demand we're seeing for living downtown," Molino said. "People want to live in downtown areas, whether it's Millennials, seniors or empty-nesters. They have overlapping interests."

Much of what we see on the Della Penna property will be demolished, Savarino said. The front of the Della Penna main building is too far gone to save and the garage to the east of the main building isn't structurally sound and is beyond repair. The main production area of the Della Penna will be restored, and that area is a perfect fit for what Resurgence plans to do, both for its size and design characteristics.

"It's important to have some link to the past," Savarino said. "It wouldn't be the same without that link. It makes the site unique to have a little bit of Batavia's past as a part of it."

Resurgence, combined with the new food establishments, brewery, and apartments going into the former Newberry building, he said, hit key redevelopment goals for Batavia.

"It really completes the project of living in a revived downtown," Molino said.

To help move the project along, Genesee County Economic Development Center is using money from the federal CDBG program. The $15 million project will receive $210,000 that will be half loan and half grant if project requirements are met. The restaurant and brewery are expected to create 15 full-time equivalent jobs, three-quarters of which will go to low- and moderate-income residents.

Getting the project to this point has been a long haul, said Julie Pacatte, coordinator of the Batavia Development Corporation.

"We've been talking about this project for a long time and people have been waiting for some movement," Pacatte said. "I think it just shows how long it takes to get things lined up before we can go public with an announcement."

Financing for the project is coming from several sources, Savarino said, and he expects financing to close in July. Construction should begin by August and Resurgence should open its doors during the first quarter of 2018.

The way the project came together, Molino said, with the involvement of the City School District, GCEDC, the county, BDC, and the City, it's really a model for how revitalization projects can be handled when everybody works together for a common goal.

"It was great work from everybody involved with great support from Resurgence," Molino said. "When you talk about how projects come together, it's really a model for best practices of the collaboration of the different entities involved.

The "heartfelt dedication" local officials had for the project was notable, Savarino said.

"I can’t say enough about working with the City of Batavia and the Batavia Development Corporation," Savarino said. "It’s quite unusual to have that level cooperation and to be working on the same side of the table with people like that."

Molino was pleased to hear the praise.

"That's what we're trying to say with the '$100 Million I'm All In' initiative," Molino said. "We want to give people the experience of great service. We want people to say, 'I can't imagine doing business anyplace other than the City of Batavia. His comment just reinforces what we're trying to say and do to make the experience great for people."

Jason Crater
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Good news! I think bringing in an established brewery is a much safer bet than trying to bring in a start-up.

Jason Crater
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That's a curious downvote. Did something in my comment offend you?

Ed Hartgrove
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The article said, "The restaurant and brewery are expected to create 15 full-time equivalent jobs, three-quarters of which will go to low- and moderate-income residents".

How does that hiring process work? Would everyone applying for employment, let's say, be required to bring in copies of their last 3 years of income tax returns? How does one go about showing that they're a low or moderate-income resident? If my "significant other" is a high-income earner, does that preclude me from being hired?

Oh, btw, exactly what is a "full-time equivalent job"? Is it a job that would require 40 hours of work, but, the pay would look like I only worked 30 hours? Or, is it a job that only requires 30 hours to earn what an average 40-hour worker would earn?

Tim Miller
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'''Full-time equivalent job" is effectively 40 hours of work (and pay). It may be accomplished by more than one person (which explains the "equivalent" part of the name).

http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/full-time-equivalent-FTE.html

Ed Hartgrove
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OK, Tim. After going to the link you provided, I (think) I understand it.

So, if the restaurant and brewery hired four people, and, gave three of them 50 hours/per/week employment, and, gave the fourth worker only 10 hours of employment, it would be said that the restaurant and brewery was fulfilling 4 full-time-equivalent (FTE) positions.

As the restaurant and brewery said they expected to create 15 full-time equivalent jobs, they could, in reality, hire 100 workers for 6-hours of work each. Yeah, I realize that's an extreme scenario, but, one that COULD meet the definition of FTE.

I guess my next question would be, why even bother listing FTE numbers? To me, it's a deceptive word game, meant to pull the wool over some people's eyes (and, perhaps/probably to wrangle some loans, which I assume are to be paid back - AND, some grants, which will be taxpayer's contributions).

david spaulding
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So the term "full time equivalent job" is just another smoke and mirror con made up by some clever politian in order to scam the sheep. ? Damn, how can you trust any of these people?
When I see these kind of things going on unchecked, it makes me glad I don't have a lot of time left while making me feel terribly sad for my children and grandchildren. Fill that swamp. Fill that swamp. Fill that swamp.

Howard B. Owens
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FTE is an important accounting principle that helps provide a meaningful comparison between companies or within one company over time. It is one comparative measure of total employment between companies and the most legitimate way to evenly weight job changes over time within a company. There's nothing deceptive in it. By its very nature, it's the most transparent way to talk about a company's total employment. It's a decades and decades and decades old measure of employment.

Also, a full-time employee is a full-time employee, regardless of hours worked. Some companies measure full time (like many newspaper companies) at 38.5 hours.

So if you had two employees regularly working 50 hours a week (either as exempts or hourly, meaning they'd also get OT), and one employee working 20 hours a week, for a total of 120 hours a week, you would still only have 2.5 FTEs (ditto if those two FT employees worked 38.5 hours per week), not three. If all three people worked only 20 hours a week for a total of 60, you would have 1.5 FTEs. These numbers, of course, have drastically different economic impacts, so it's a difference we want to capture to a good, comparative number in this way.

Service businesses with long work shifts often rely on a compliment of part-time employees so they can more easily manage flexible schedules, especially since many part-timers either go to school, have other jobs, family obligations or even other full-time jobs, making part-time work not only important to the companies but important to the employees and important to our economy. But not all companies that employ part-time workers employ them equally, so the FTE measurement gives us a meaningful way to statistically compare employment across companies and across industries.

It's been this way my entire adult working life. Like I said, this isn't some deceptive innovation. It's standard practice and part of the business environment for as long as somebody thought it important to measure this sort of thing.

david spaulding
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Thank you Howard for taking the time to explain FTE to me, I do appreciate it... :) as you can probably imagine I was very disturbed, due to my own ignorance, by my prior interpretation of FTE.

Jim Urtel Jr
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Yea so why not just call it what it is, part-time?

Howard B. Owens
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I do hope it helped, Dave.

Jim, because it's not just part-time.

One thing I thought later I should have included ... one reason service businesses measure by FTEs (all companies do, but this is relevant to service businesses) is flexible work schedule.

Let's say you start off hiring 30 people. Eight work full time and ten work 20 hours a week and two work something less, so now you have 15 FTEs. A couple of those positions are managers, so they're always going to be FT, but let's say four of your new hires just seemed like really great candidates, they really wanted full-time work and you were able to accommodate them and wanted to be sure they took the job offer. A month into your business, one turns out to be a thief and one leaves because grandma in Arizona became sick and needs a caregiver. You now have 80 hours or your schedule to fill, but none of the best candidates can take full-time work, so you hire the best of the pool at 20 hours each, four of them. You still have 15 FTEs, but your payroll hasn't changed and you're still covering all of your shifts.

A company is going to look at FTEs along the lines of, "this is what I can budget for payroll," and "these are the number of hours to fill." Now let's start hiring people and see how the pieces of the puzzle fit together.

Ed Hartgrove
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I see you're pretty good at word games yourself, Howard. As in the first paragraph of comment #7.

As for the 2nd paragraph, "Also, a full-time employee is a full-time employee, regardless of hours worked. Some companies measure full time (like many newspaper companies) at 38.5 hours.", in other words, a company can decide for itself what constitutes a full-time employee.

Which brings me right back to my statement that, "they could, in reality, hire 100 workers for 6-hours of work each."

If my company tells its employees that their (full-time) work week will consist of 6 hours, that's it.

It still sounds rather deceptive to me. ESPECIALLY if it's used to garner monetary support from taxpayers who, if they had any choice, wouldn't toss in a dime of their own money.

Howard B. Owens
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I've played no word games. If you don't like the facts and the truth, I can't help you.

John Roach
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The bigger question is, who cares what they mean by FTE worker? Bottom line is that a business plans to open in an area that has none now and will hire some people for jobs that do not exist now. Rate of pay will most likely be the same as similar businesses in the downtown area.

Tim Miller
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FTE is 40 hours of work, regardless of how many workers perform that work.

For example (not starting a political debate here - just giving a real-world example): Initially detractors frequently declared that as the ACA required employers to offer insurance if they had 50 full time employees working 40hrs/wk, they would get around this requirement by hiring 50 more @20hrs/wk and cutting existing employees' time in half. They were nowhere near as clever as they thought... The ACA requirement for offering insurance was based on 50 FTE. As Howard noted in one comment - cutting the number of hours in half and doubling the number of workers leaves you with the same FTE.

Jim Urtel Jr
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It is just another way around benefits and making a living. How is that worker getting 20 hours supposed to live themselves or much less feed a family? This is the reason why so many people who are working still qualify for Medicaid and food stamps! Hire less people who are the most qualified and give them 40 hours and benefits. Now you`ve done something. They will probably fill these spots with temp services to assure no full time positions come up.

Howard B. Owens
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Not everybody wants a full-time job, as I explained above.

A service business can't possibly staff efficiently with only full-time employees, as I explained above.

People that have the skills to move beyond lower-wage jobs into better full-time jobs do move into those jobs. Changing the wage rates of service sector jobs isn't going to magically make more skilled applicants apply. They already have jobs. It would also mean the employers would have to charge consumers more for the products and services they sell, which creates inflation, which negates the wage gains for the workers.

Brian Graz
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It may not be deceptive, but it is an unethical scheme since it allows an employer to benefit from receiving the necessary man-hours to accomplish his work requirements without having to provide the benefits that would usually accompany a full-time job. Just consider an employer who has 8 employees working 15-34hrs/wk to cover a total work load of 160hr/wk... in place of it's previous job detail using 4 employees working 40hrs/wk. That employer now has 4 FTE jobs, but without paying FT wages/benefits. The new arrangement precludes the employer having to provide benefits [vacation, paid holidays, healthcare, etc]... where as in the previous arrangement the employer had to provide the benefits required for 4 full-time employees. I know, because this is the exact scenario that has been implemented at my previous job. The last contract passed while I was still employed changed the terms for PT vs FT jobs, to where a FT job was anyone who's "annual average" was 35 or more hrs/wk. That was a precursor to the eventual phasing out of all FT jobs [with benefits] to all jobs that were 34.5hrs/wk average, or less [with no benefits].

The employer gets the gold mine, and the worker gets the shaft.

John Roach
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Brian, who says the employer has to provide anything more than a wage?
We all like benefits, but should they be mandated?

Howard B. Owens
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John, it seems Brian calls himself a conservative but doesn't believe in the free market.

Employers can only get away with, so to speak, with what the market allows. People who don't like what they're getting from one employer are free to change jobs, or they can start a business.

Also, wages and benefits come out of the same pool of money. Want better benefits, then be prepared for lower wages. Prefer higher wages, fewer benefits.

Employers compete for employees just like the compete for customers. They also have budgets to manage and profit margins to maintain. That's how the free market works. If the market is working for you, change the market. Get more skills, start a business, move to another location. You're in control of your employment, not your employer.

Howard B. Owens
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Also, Brian, the situation you describe sounds like an employer trying to be creative to avoid layoffs and keep the doors open. Rather than put good people out of work, he or she is trying to stay afloat until better days come back

Jim Urtel Jr
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You guys make me laugh! Batavia is really flourishing under all these schemes. Common sense is hard to come by on here some days!

Jim Urtel Jr
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Batavia has turned into a drug re-hab center and a welfare haven because there are no jobs here. The only jobs here are of the part- time kind unless you are in the union at the one factory left in town! The only people doing good here are the rental property owners collecting HUD payments. Almost all businesses are phasing out full-time and benefits. Then people complain about those on welfare or medicaid! If you work hard and want to work, why the hell should you not be able to make a living wage with benefits? Labor laws have new ways thought up to avoid them everyday and it`s ridiculous!

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John Roach
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Jim, I didn't say Batavia was flourishing. But there are jobs and the fact this place is even coming here proves that. They not be the jobs you approve of, but they are jobs. Can't find what you want here, drive to Buffalo. There is a lack of workers in the skilled trades in Buffalo.

Jim Urtel Jr
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Howard, that post means zero! Where are all the factories at? Where are the full-time jobs? There are none in Batavia. Now they come up with a new term for part-time and call it full-time and that is wonderful news to you? John, no kidding you can drive to Buffalo. I`m talking about here in Batavia though. There are jobs alright, but they are in the chainstores or the food chains. You can go to work at Walmart where you will still be eligible for food stamps and medicaid. Remember back when you guys got out of high school, if you wanted to go get a full-time job with benefits you had your choice of places to go. That`s when Batavia and the surrounding area was flourishing! It`s been a while huh? I don`t think that a microbrewery that is going to have some part-time jobs with a fancy name is going to change that much!

Howard B. Owens
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Jim, that post has actual data, actual facts, quotes from experts. Where is your data?I only see your opinion.

Frank Bartholomew
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This whole debate could be non existent if employers got out of the healthcare business.

Howard B. Owens
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Here's a bit of history on employer-provided health insurance

https://www.zanebenefits.com/blog/part-1-the-history-of-u.s.-employer-pr...

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=114045132

Employer-provided health insurance is a historical accident that is now embedded into our system. Most Americans can't imagine any other system and expect jobs with large employers to provide insurance as if it's a right and not just additional compensation.

It's also a major driver of escalating costs.

Howard B. Owens
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The other thing that really distorted the market was the creation by the Nixon Administration of HMOs, which also gave us our first employer mandate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_maintenance_organization

Jim Urtel Jr
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Here`s your fact Howard. Take a look around Batavia and tell me where these jobs are other than temp jobs and part-time jobs that a person can`t make a living on. Say nothing about benefits, how about a job that you can just get a 40 hr week at. Don`t you find it odd that most graduates are forced to leave here? That post includes the temp jobs such as Chapin that will never hire you on no matter how good a worker you are full-time because before your 6 months are up, they fire you and hire new temps. My girlfriend went through it twice there. Her temp job was fixing the mistakes of the union long-time workers! That`s good business! The article states 400 people got jobs and went off unemployment. It doesn`t tell you about the ones whose unemployment ran out and they didn`t get a job. The fact is take a look around!

Howard B. Owens
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Again, Jim, no data, just opinion, and anecdote. The article does address the number of people re-entering the job market. That is a trend heading in a positive direction, not the negative direction you assert.

People have been leaving rust belt communities ever since the invention of air conditioning. That's nothing new. But the facts are the facts and we have a good labor market right now. Don't accept the truth if you don't want to, but that's your choice.

Jim Urtel Jr
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If you don`t think the employers should provide health insurance, I guess you suppose a person should be able to eat, pay their bills and also buy health insurance out of that full-time equivalent job of 20 hrs a week? I bet you probably had benefits at your job right? I suppose that`s ok though. It`s not just Batavia, a lot of America is struggling today. Giving the businesses new ways to keep the worker down is not going to help.

Jim Urtel Jr
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Where? You didn`t answer anything! Where are these good jobs at in this labor market? Anybody can find an article to support their claim in today`s google world. We both live in this little town. Where can you go in Batavia right now and get a full-time job? A high school graduate has no shot and even with a college degree, where are you going?

Howard B. Owens
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My previous article answers your questions.

The job bank lists lots of full-time jobs

http://newyork.us.jobs/results.asp?pg=2&si=1591770238&pi=1&ri=1&so=relev...

Indeed lists 408 full-time jobs within 15 miles of Batavia

https://www.indeed.com/jobs?l=Batavia,+NY&radius=15&jt=fulltime

The job bureau says they also have a list of 760 open positions.

I see help wanted signs all over the county when I drive around, many at manufacturers.

The jobs are out there for the people qualified enough to get them.

Jim Urtel Jr
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These are in the county, not just Batavia like we are talking about and they include the chain-stores like Michael`s and such. I also see a lot of them are listed through temp agencies. I get a kick out of how the way you say the jobs are there for those who are qualified to get them. So a person who gets out of high school and for one reason or another can`t go on to college isn`t qualified to get a job no matter how great of a worker he might be? That is where we went wrong in this country. All of these well educated people made manufacturing jobs disappear in cost cutting moves. There are plenty of kids who grow up on farms for example and worked from the time they were able and learn from hands on experience that would lose out on a job to a kid who went and learned agriculture in a college. Most companies have agencies do their hiring for them to save a buck. Most of those jobs listed wouldn`t be full-time and most were not in Batavia but as long as you`re happy with your polls and all, I guess we`re all in good shape.

Jim Urtel Jr
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I think Brian`s comment #17 explains it all the best.

Howard B. Owens
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There are all kinds of jobs for all kinds of people throughout the county, of which Batavia is the county seat. You were insisting there wasn't, I proved there was. Feel free to move the goal posts.

You write as if people are owed a job just because they breathe. That's hardly a conservative, free market solution.

If you want a job, make yourself qualified for a job. If you want a better paying job, make yourself qualified for a better paying job. That's how free markets work.

" So a person who gets out of high school and for one reason or another can`t go on to college isn`t qualified to get a job no matter how great of a worker he might be?"

I'm not going to hire somebody to be a reporter just because he's hard worker. Graham isn't going to hire a welder just because he's a hard worker. Chapin isn't going to hire an IT support person just because he's a hard worker. You've got to have the skills, training, and qualifications for good paying jobs.

Even if you want to work in a factory these days, you better be smart and skilled enough to operate computers and robots.

Just as we covered the other day, even if you want to be an auto mechanic, a job that one time any high school graduate could do without a lot of training, now requires specialized high school classes and at least two years of college, because cars are a lot more complicated than they used to be.

" All of these well-educated people made manufacturing jobs disappear in cost-cutting moves."

You say that as if trying to save a buck is a bad thing. Businesses exist to make money.

Companies operate in competitive environment. Consumers demand low prices. Either companies get more efficient and more productive or they go out of business.

Economist Joseph Schumpeter coined the phrase "creative destruction" more than half a century ago to describe the process of free markets that are constantly reinventing themselves. Cars put buggy whip makers out of work. Computers destroyed jobs for linotype composers. Kerosene destroyed the candle business and lightbulbs destroyed the kerosene business. Markets change and evolved. It's always been that way and it will always be that way. Adapt or die is the rule of the business jungle.

Through all of that creative destruction, however, standards of living have kept improving, GDP has kept growing, exports have kept growing, imports have kept growing, consumer prices have kept falling. Over the long course of history, economic growth has been on a relentless path toward ever-greater prosperity for all people, but that doesn't mean there haven't been times of pain or that all people have benefitted equally. If you want equality in an economy, move to a socialist utopia like Venezuela.

"There are plenty of kids who grow up on farms for example and worked from the time they were able and learn from hands-on experience that would lose out on a job to a kid who went and learned agriculture in a college."

Even granting that is true, why should I have any sympathy? You want a better paying job, make yourself qualified for a better paying job. That's how it works in a free market. The kid who went to college did more to earn the job. Nobody owes you a job. If you're not interested in acquiring marketable skills, why is that the fault of employers or the government or anybody else other than the individual who chose not to become more marketable?

More young men than ever are getting that message ... as the U.S. moves away from low-skilled jobs, record number of young men are enrolled in college.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-05-04/as-u-s-jobs-move-to-h...

Jim Urtel Jr
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Yea, well there aren`t enough of these jobs around and at some point, all the factories will be gone. All the workers will be robots and machines. There will be more and more well educated people joining the people on welfare because there are no jobs to be had. Whatever Howard, you think things are great, I don`t. Neither one of our opinions really mean a damn thing!

Howard B. Owens
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Oh, there will be jobs. All evidence points toward a more automated world, but one that can't survive without human intervention. There will be jobs and probably the same strata of good paying jobs to low paying jobs we've always had.

p.w. minor is a good example of a company using the cost savings of robotics to move manufacturing back from China to the U.S. and in the process creating more factory jobs here.

The trend is called reshoring, though it isn't always going easy ...

https://www.wsj.com/articles/small-u-s-manufacturers-struggle-to-bring-j...

Kevin Kelly published a good essay the other day about the myth of superhuman intelligence, which goes right along with the thinking of a lot of experts in the field that AI and robots will extend the productivity of people, not replace people.

https://backchannel.com/the-myth-of-a-superhuman-ai-59282b686c62

There are also those in Silicon Valley who promote the idea of a universal basic income (like Milton Friedman's negative income tax, which the concept of the earned income tax credit is baed on), and UBI may have some merit, but also drawbacks.

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So, only the Jim approved jobs are worthy. The new businesses that are planning on opening should not even bother since they don't meet his standards. Since factory jobs are not coming to downtown Batavia, nobody else should even bother.

Jim Urtel Jr
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John, if that`s what you got out of my posts, your just an idiot. You always seem to have a problem with anything I post. What you think means absolutely nothing to me. What did you throw into the conversation that was productive at all? Don`t just sit back and throw your insults at me. Jim approved jobs, you are a clown!

Jim Urtel Jr
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All I am stating from the beginning is that a full-time equivalent job sounds like nothing more than a part-time job to me just like all the other part-time jobs in Batavia. Although it turned into a needless long debate with Howard, at least he helped me kill an afternoon.

John Roach
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Jim, take a deep breath. Your posts show you approve only of certain types of jobs. The others are just not good enough for you. And the "needless" debate was due to your failure to understand what was being said.

Jim Urtel Jr
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I understand perfectly! It`s not at all about what I approve of. I am just stating that these new full-time equivalent jobs are nothing more than a nice way of saying part-time jobs. They are going to get the tax breaks and all to come in and do just what the yogurt plant did. Promise a bunch of jobs that end up being temp jobs and part-time. I don`t know how anybody would approve such a thing unless they own the company! Full time equivalent must be a term cooked up to get around the rules for the grants.

Julie Morales
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I agree with Jim. John, if you think Jim is saying nothing is good enough unless he approves, you are being unfairly disingenuous or not comprehending what he’s written.

I think most people posting are at least as old as I am, probably older, and can remember a thriving Batavia. Or maybe it just seemed to be thriving compared to now. Streets and neighborhoods I roamed freely and safely as a kid look like war zones now or worse. Seems to me I read recently of 2,540 “food insecure” children in Genesee County, per data from two years ago. Nothing wrong here.

How’s the immigrant detention center doing?

I also agree, Jim…our opinions don’t mean sh*t; something to do on a rainy Sunday afternoon.

The “myth of superhuman intelligence,” I would have to agree with that, as well.

John Roach
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Julie, the point of this story was a business opening up and will be hiring people. Not all jobs will be full time, which is not unusual for many businesses. Jim complained that it is not going to be a factory and will not pay enough. This business might not be the kind Jim or others would like to see, but big factories are not likely to be coming back into the City limits. If Batavia starts coming back, it will be small businesses that do it Rather than be happy a business will open, he complains. The business might not make it, it could end up failing, but I am happy they will try to make it.

Jim Urtel Jr
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I did not at all say it should be a factory! The conversation led to using factories as an example. I am complaining about the fact that they are coming in and getting grants to open up a business with a bunch of part-time jobs that they have made a fancy name up for to make them seem like full-time jobs. A full-time equivalent job is not very full time like for the person doing it and trying to make a living off an FTI wage! Call it what it is, a part-time job, that`s all. 3 Pintos don`t make a caddy just like 3 part-time positions don`t make a full-time one unless you are the employer. Why not just call it like it is?

John Roach
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Jim, I can agree that FTE should be called what it really is, a combination of full and part time work. And I would normally agree with you about the tax breaks. But, in this particular case, the tax breaks were needed to get anyone to take on and build in this contaminated site. Clearly, nobody was going to buy that land and pay the cleanup costs without the breaks.

Ed Hartgrove
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Howard. Though this has nothing to do with the original post, I caught part of Julie's comment, and, it brought up a question.

She wrote, " Streets and neighborhoods I roamed freely and safely as a kid look like war zones now or worse."

Which brought to mind, have you any information about how the "surveillance camera(s)" the city was planning on installing (on State Street?) have worked out? Does anyone know if they have helped deter/solve any crime(s)?

Just wondering!

Howard B. Owens
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I know the cameras have been used. I don't have any current information.

I disagree that the streets are like war zones. From where I'm from, this is an idyllic, peaceful community.

Jim, if they are saying 15 FTE, that could mean 15 full-time jobs or 30 part-time or anything in between. You are willfully ignoring the meaning of the term. And you keep talking about this as if it's some recently concocted term just for tax breaks. That was explained to you, that is not true. It is simply factually wrong. You're entitled to your opinions, as they say, but not your own facts. This is a very common phrase in the business world that has no relation whatsoever to assistance programs.

I don't even believe the assistance discussed in this article is at all tied to a job quota (though I haven't double checked, but nothing I received or was told indicated a job creation requirement per se).

It will cost something like $2 million just to clean up this property ... no private investor is taking on a project like that alone. Would you rather the property stay in its current state, just an ugly waste of vacant property, or become something that generates property tax, sales tax, incomes for people, brings visitors into our community?

One other thing you keep talking about jobs as something you should make a living at -- that's a very incomplete understanding of the job market. Not all jobs are intended so the holder can "make a living," nor should they be. Not everybody who seeks employment wants to "make a living." Should a college student who needs a part-time job while going to school be guaranteed a job that "makes a living" for that person? Should the retiree who doesn't want to work full time but just wants to get out of the house "make a living"?

A dynamic economy needs all kind of jobs to meet all kinds of needs both for workers and employers.

There will be full-time jobs in this business, and I'm sure they will pay competitive wages for the industry. You seem to be under the delusion that they should all be full-time and that ignores facts, reality and basic economics.

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