genesee county

A proposal to reduce funding from the state for towns and villages, known as AIM (Aid and Incentives for Municipalities) could wind up as just another cost burden for Genesee County, County Manager Jay Gsell told the Ways and Means Committee at its meeting Wednesday.

If the funding cut goes through, the County could make up the $230,000 in difference for towns and villages from its own revenue.

Gsell said the governor’s office is being somewhat disingenuous about how cuts are being presented to municipalities.

What the state says it will do and what it actually does will be two different things, Gsell suggested.

The governor’s office is proposing a new sales tax on products sold digitally, an e-commerce tax, and that new revenue stream -- the theory goes -- will allow counties to share a portion of sales tax with municipalities.

Genesee County is one of the few counties in the state that currently shares sales tax but the proposal by the governor would mandate an obligation, perhaps above current revenue sharing, and force the rest of the counties to start sharing sales tax.

But there’s no guarantee New York will be successful in instituting an e-commerce tax – something state officials have sought for years, and it would certainly be difficult, Gsell said, to institute before the state’s new fiscal year starts April 1.

That could leave the counties, including Genesee County, with another unfunded mandate.

Under the governor's budget proposal, only municipalities that use a lower percentage of AIM for their annual budget would have funding cut. If that holds, neither the Village of Le Roy nor the City of Batavia, which receives more than $1 million in AIM funding, would have that funding cut.

The Legislature will be asked to vote on a resolution opposing the proposed cut to AIM.

Statement from Craig Yunker, CEO of CY Farms and a former county legislator:

Proposal #1 on the Nov. 6th ballot authorizes extending the terms of Genesee County legislators from two to four years with staggered terms. I served on the Legislature for 13 years. As the former Chair of the Genesee County Legislature I strongly support this proposal.

The learning curve for a new legislator is a minimum of two to three years. To expect new legislators to be competent in two years is unreasonable. For example, capital projects extend over years and losing legislators is a deterrent to their successful completion. Staggered terms that are included in this proposal diminishes the possibility of a complete turnover in one year. Such a turnover would likely result in a period of less effectiveness of the legislature during the ramp up as the newly elected body find their sea legs. The cost of running elections is not a trivial matter. This proposal has the potential to reduce election expenses for the county.

Political parties have difficulty recruiting candidates for public office. Not having to campaign, with the related expense, every two years will make the positions more attractive to the kind of candidates that want to be effective at running the county instead of playing politics.

Most towns and villages have recognized these issues and extended the terms for elected officials to four years. No significant negatives for this proposal have been presented and there are many other positives. So I ask your support for Proposal 1.

City of Batavia leaders believe they have come up with one way to address the traffic safety concerns on the Southside streets of Watson, Thorpe and Maple: Turn Thorpe Street into a one-way street.

Police Chief Shawn Heubusch, in coordination with Director of Public Works Matt Worth and Maintenance Superintendent Ray Tourt, asked City Council to approve a recommendation to allow motorists to travel southbound only on Thorpe Street between Watson and Maple.

Council, during tonight’s Conference Meeting (a Special Business meeting followed), decided to move the suggestion forward to its next Business Meeting on Nov. 13.

If the board votes in favor of the modification, a public hearing on a change in the municipal code would be scheduled.

Over the past year or so, residents of those streets have petitioned City Council to do something about cars not stopping at the Thorpe/Watson intersection, which already is hampered by limited sight lines. Residents had asked for the placement of a stop sign on Watson Street headed eastbound at the intersection of Thorpe Street.

Heubusch said that a traffic study did not warrant a stop sign or other traffic control device, plus there wasn’t enough space to properly erect a stop sign.

“So in order to alleviate that issue, we suggested creating a one-way street – making Thorpe a one-way street,” he said. “It is a southbound street only now (per the recommendation), coming from Watson to Maple.

“We hope that will alleviate the issue with that sight line and visibility issue, because you will no longer have cars northbound on Thorpe Street looking to turn west onto Watson, or east onto Watson for that matter, because they will no longer be allowed to go that way.”

City officials also are recommending that parking be allowed on the west side of Thorpe Street between Watson and Maple, and leaving the portion of Thorpe Street north of Watson as a two-way street with a stop sign and a parking ban on both sides.

Heubusch said that if these changes don’t work, they will explore other options.

In other action last night, Council:

-- Voted to approve an amended sales tax agreement with Genesee County that extends the current pact for one more year, through Dec. 31, 2019.  As it stands now, the City receives 16 percent of the sales tax revenue, compared to the county’s 50 percent and the towns sharing the remaining 34 percent.

A new 40-year agreement which changes the terms is on hold due to objections by the State Comptroller’s Office, which is calling for “special legislation” by the State Legislature to vote on the contract.

-- Voted to schedule a public hearing at 7 p.m. Nov. 13 on an ordinance to amend the zoning map of the City of Batavia per a request by City Church to change parcels at the former St. Anthony’s School/Church campus from R-3 Resident to C-3 Commercial.

As reported previously, City Church leaders are hoping to offer commercial activities such as a dance school, art school and community education classes at the site and they have been working with the City to house the Batavia Youth Bureau, with the idea of renaming it Teen City.

Council also agreed to taking on lead agency designation in a mandated State Environmental Quality Review of the six parcels on Liberty Street and Central Avenue.

 -- Voted to reject bids from two companies for the replacement of two areas of flat roofs and four entry silos at the City Centre due to the fact that the bids came in 25 to 30 percent over the estimated cost (about $150,000) of the project.

Instead, Council is going with Worth’s recommendation for DPW to perform some remedial work on the roof and silos, and then rebid the work to start in the spring as part of a larger project.

Council members Rose Mary Christian and John Canale questioned whether the DPW’s work – estimated at $4,000 – would eliminate the need for all the buckets in the concourse. Worth said he couldn’t ensure that all leaks will be stopped, but said it “will get us through the winter.”

-- Accepted a STOP-DWI grant for $4,576 for a detail that starts this month, and voted to amend the City’s personnel policy manual to adopt the state’s sexual harassment policy, which calls for all employees to be trained by Oct. 9, 2019.

Press release:

New York State, as part of the Adopted 2017/18 State Budget, included a mandate on all local governments to discuss and develop shared services ideas and plans for eventual submittal to the County Legislature and subsequently the New York State Department of State.

Part of the process for discussing and developing these public sector shared services plans is to have public meetings/opportunities for citizen input and to take suggestions on possible public sector shared services opportunities that have not already occurred and are in place.

The Genesee County Legislature scheduled three Public Hearings and has added a fourth opportunity for public comment to be held Tuesday, Sept. 18, at 4:30 p.m. in the Old Courthouse, 7 Main St., Batavia. All interested citizens are encouraged to attend and provide comments.

Press release:

The Genesee County Chamber of Commerce’s tourism program has partnered with Channel 13-WHAM to create a featured promotion that will air on FOX, The CW, and ABC.

The 30-minute show, called "It's Closer than You Think," is a sampling of what’s new in Genesee County, along with some of the county’s best outdoor recreational opportunities. It debuts tomorrow morning at 7.

“The promotion is designed to raise awareness to Rochester area residents that Genesee County is just a short drive that offers great 'close to home' recreation, dining and shopping options,” said Kelly Rapone, Tourism Marketing director for the Genesee County Chamber of Commerce. “We’d like to do another future episode that highlights even more of the county’s treasures."

Be sure to tune in to see special interviews with some of our local tourism businesses in Le Roy and Batavia, as well as outdoor recreation hot spots across the county.

The broadcast schedule is as follows:

• 7 a.m. Saturday, Sept. 8, on 13-WHAM
• 7 p.m. on Sunday, Sept. 9, on The CW
• 6:30 a.m. Sunday, Sept. 9, on FOX
• In addition it will also air:
  • 2 a.m. Sept., 12, 13 and 19 on 13-WHAM
  • 6 a.m. Sept. 10, 11 and 13 on FOX

If you happen to miss the airing or don’t have access to broadcast channels, you can see the full episode at:  YouTube.com/GeneseeCountyNY

Over the spring and summer, we also included commercials under this theme that highlighted concerts, Batavia Muckdogs home games, golf packages, racing at Genesee Speedway, the Oatka Festival, as well as The Ramble Music & Arts Festival.

For more information on all of our local offerings, check out www.VisitGeneseeNY.com

Starting with this payroll, 22 Genesee County employees will no longer have money deducted from their paychecks to help support the Civil Service Employees Association, a union that represents 214 county employees, according to County Manager Jay Gsell.

The change is a result of a 5-4 Supreme Court ruling that week, Janus v. AFSCME  (analysis by SCOTUSBlog), that struck down rules that allowed fees to be charged to non-union members who were employed by a government agency under terms of a collective bargaining agreement.

There are four unions representing 353 county employees, Gsell said, but only CSEA was receiving fees from non-members.

Interim City Manage Matt Worth said there are no City of Batavia employees who are covered by collective bargaining who are not members of their respective unions.

According to a Gannett News Service report, 31,000 state employees from throughout New York, will cease paying the fee this week.

Federal employees covered by collective bargaining are not required to pay the fee, and according to Justice Samuel Alito, who wrote the majority opinion in Janus, 28 states prohibit such fees.

Unions at the federal level and in these states have not been thrown into “pandemonium” nor has there been “conflict and disruption” without these fees, Alito noted.

The suit over union fees that eventually made its way to the justices was initiated by Mark Janus, a child-support specialist for the Illinois Department of Healthcare and Family Services. He objected to the fees because they went to such political speech intended to influence government agencies on issues such as salaries, pensions, and benefits for government employees.

That, he said, violated his First Amendment rights by forcing him to support speech that did not necessarily conform to his personal views.

“In simple terms, the First Amendment does not permit the government to compel a person to pay for another party’s speech just because the government thinks that the speech furthers the interests of the person who does not want to pay,” Alito wrote.

Alito noted that public spending, including the “mounting costs of public-employee wages, benefits, and pensions” – has skyrocketed in the past four decades. As a result, collective bargaining has gained a new political significance making the issue of fees to support that speech a bigger First Amendment issue.

In her dissenting opinion, Justice Elena Kagan warned that the ruling could disrupt “thousands of ongoing contracts involving millions of employees.”

UPDATE 5:50 p.m.: The county schedule for payroll deductions for union fees are: 

• AFSCME: $18.76 bi-weekly
• DSA: $22 bi-weekly
• SEA: $15.55 bi-weekly
• CSEA: bi-weekly range is $18.73 - $30.15

A severe thunderstorm watch is in effect until 11 p.m. in Genesee County, and other portions of Western New York, according to the National Weather Service.

For the second year in a row, Reyncrest Farm held Genesee County's annual dairy days and yesterday 630 kindergarten students attended from various surrounding schools in the county. 

As technology changes, family farms adapt differently with land resources. Every two years a different farm gets rotated, said Shelly Stein of the Agricultural Farmland Protection Board for Genesee County. 

Family member Kelly Reynolds said the farm has 15 full-time employees plus six family members, who work with 1,200 milk cows plus 1,100 young stock consisting of calves and heffers around the clock seven days a week on the farm.  

A hazardous weather outlook is in effect for Western and North Central New York, which includes Genesee County, today and tonight.

Scattered thunderstorms will develop this afternoon and evening. Some of the storms will produce wind gusts.

Storms may also produce locally heavy rain with a small risk for flooding.

Also, scattered thunderstorms will develop Friday afternoon and evening, with some of the storms possibly producing locally heavy rain with a small risk for flooding.

Press release:

Today, U.S. Senate Minority Leader Charles E. Schumer called on the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) to administratively fund the work being done at the Northeast Center For Occupational Safety And Health For Agriculture, Forestry And Fishing (NEC) on the National tractor rollover protection systems (ROPS) rebate program.

Schumer said ROPS is a vital program, especially considering that farm-related deaths are up to 800 percent higher than many other major industries, with tractor overturns being their most frequent cause at a rate of 96 cases per year.

“ROPS is a critical and cost-effective rebate program that provides important information to farmers across the country on how to find and install the right rollover bar for their machinery. It is imperative that the CDC does everything possible to fund this program to help ensure that farmers and growers have every tool possible to stay safe and succeed,”Senator Schumer said.

The ROPS program facilitates rebates in states with state-based funding to farmers to cover approximately 70 percent of the cost for a farmer to install a ROPS roll bar retrofit kit on their tractor. According to Schumer, the original grant funding for this important program is slated to expire in September, and the CDC has discontinued the funding mechanism to allow for the continued federal investment in this program.

“Keeping family farmers and farm workers who operate dangerous machinery safe must be a major priority. That is why I am the urging the CDC to restore funding for this critical farm safety program and the subsequent research,” Schumer said. “The work done by organizations like the NEC is exactly the type of work the federal government should be investing in: it’s cost-effective, informed by real industry experts, and helps save farmers’ lives every day.

"By slashing available funding to this life-saving organization, we jeopardize successful programs that are providing critical resources to farmers, like a 1-800 safety hot-line number and on the ground experts in rural communities, so farmers can access the ROPS Rebate Program, which helps farmers correctly install rollover bars on their tractors just in case the tractor flips over. We need to do everything possible to make sure we are investing in developing new safety solutions for our farmers and growers. and I will be doing everything possible to make sure this program, which puts farmers first, is protected.”

According to NEC Director, Dr. Julie Sorensen, the program has also been considerably cost-effective with recent economic assessments pointing to a $5 million savings in NY State due to deaths and injuries averted through the program.

As stated by Sorensen, “Senator Schumer’s support for the ROPS program and dedication to the farming community is so essential to ensuring the sustainability of one of our state’s most crucial industries.”

Schumer said the agricultural community is the lifeblood of Upstate New York, and that protecting the well-being and safety of farmers must be a major priority.

In response to the hazardous environment of working on a farm, the Northeast Center For Occupational Safety And Health For Agriculture, Forestry and Fishing launched an effort to create the life-saving ROPS Rebate Program, which covers approximately 70 percent of the cost for a farmer to install a ROPS rollbar kit on their tractor.

In most cases, this means farmers only pay $500 or less for this life-saving equipment that can otherwise cost up to $1,200.

NEC also provides information to farmers throughout the country on how to find and install the right rollover bar.

Since its inception in 2006, the NEC reports that more than 2,150 tractors have been retrofitted with protective structures in seven states, with more than 1,500 of those retrofits occurring in New York State alone. Farmers throughout the country benefit from the hotline and administrative support that is provided through CDC funding.

Furthermore, Schumer said, participants in New York reported 221 close calls and 19 serious incidents in which death or injury was likely without the protective ROPS structures. However, all of this critical outreach and infrastructure surrounding the ROPS program could come to an end if the CDC allows the federal funding for the ROPS program to come to a halt. Schumer said that this program is vital to farmers and growers, and that he will do everything possible to ensure that the CDC administratively funds the program so that the inroads the ROPS program has made can continue.

A copy of the Senator’s letter appears below:

Dear Director Redfield, MD:

"I write to bring attention to a problem which continues to threaten the lives of farmers and growers in Upstate New York and nationwide. As you know, farm-related deaths are 800 percent higher than many other industries, with tractor overturns being the most frequent cause of deaths on farms, at a rate of 96 cases per year. I commend and appreciate the great work being done at the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) to invest in tractor rollover protection systems (ROPS) and the continued safety of our farmers. However, it has come to my attention that the federal funding for the ROPS program through NIOSH is in jeopardy of coming to an end in September. Therefore, I urge you to work with the Northeast Regional Center in Cooperstown, New York, as well as other NIOSH Centers across the country, in order to administratively fund this important work that saves almost 100 lives a year across the country.

As you know, our agricultural community is the lifeblood of rural America, and protecting the well-being and safety of our farmers must be a majority priority. In response to the hazardous environment of working on a farm, the Northeast Center For Occupational Safety And Health For Agriculture, Forestry and Fishing (NEC) launched an effort to create the life-saving ROPS Rebate Program, which covers approximately 70% of the cost for a farmer to install a ROPS rollbar kit on their tractor. In most cases, this means farmers only pay $500 or less for this life-saving equipment that can otherwise cost up to $1,200. NEC also provides information to farmers on how to find and install the right rollover bar. Since its inception in 2006, the NEC reports that more than 2,150 tractors have been retrofitted with protective structures in seven states, with more than 1,500 of those retrofits occurring in New York State alone. However, all of this critical outreach and infrastructure surrounding the ROPS program could come to an end if federal funding comes to a halt.  This is why I urge you to administratively provide funding to the ROPS program, so that the  important inroads the ROPS program has made can continue. 

During these challenging times for our agricultural communities, it is imperative that we do everything in our power to ensure that our farmers and growers have every tool available to succeed. In New York State alone, the ROPS program has been extremely effective in preventing tractor rollover deaths and injuries to our farmers and growers. Feedback from the agricultural community has been extremely positive, with participants in New York reporting 221 close calls and 19 serious incidents in which death or injury was likely without protective structures. This kind of success should be touted and continued, which is why I urge you to ensure that you continue to fund the great work done by the NEC and ROPS as soon as possible.     

I understand that in the current fiscal climate resources are constrained, and as always, I vow to stand with the Center for Disease Control (CDC) throughout the budget process. However, based on the critical importance of protecting the health and safety of our agricultural workers, I ask that you ensure that federal funding continues to flow to the ROPS program past September. I look forward to working with you on this important request."

U.S. Senate Minority Leader Charles E. Schumer

Tonight at Mercy Grove the Le Roy Central School Senior Class hosted “Mom Prom.”

This is an annual event where graduating seniors bring their mom or special guest to show appreciation for their support and guidance while they were in school.

The three-hour soiree includes dinner and is full of surprise activities for attendees.

The highlight of the evening is a water-pong tournament. (Water pong is non-alcoholic version of beer pong.)

The winning graduate receives a $100 scholarship and their partner is crowned “Mom of the Prom.” 

The workload for the County's IT department continues to increase and the need for reliable cybersecurity continues to grow, so Information Technology Director Steve Zimmer told county legislators on Wednesday that he needs more help.

He needs a deputy director immediately and another security analyst to work in the Sheriff's Office in 2019.

It appears he's getting both of his wishes. The committee approved a recommendation that a current vacant position be upgraded to deputy director at an additional cost of $20,000 for the remainder of the year (anticipated salary for the position is more than $70,000 annually).  

Committee members also encouraged Zimmer to start his search to hire a new security specialist in July so the new hire can start on the first day of the next budget yet, Jan. 1.

Zimmer pointed to major cyber attacks and ransomware infiltrations in Atlanta, Baltimore, Lincoln County, Ohio, and at ECMC, which cost the hospital $10 million in remediation.

“We’re spending a considerable amount of time looking at our logs, looking at our firewalls, our anti-virus appliances, trying to make sure we’re doing our due-diligence," Zimmer said. "I’m losing time every day to this stuff."

He said public safety needs at least two full-time people and right now he has one full-time person there and one person who has been taken away from other duties to help.

That means, he says, other IT tasks are being delayed.

Another major headache, Zimmer said, is the situation over at the Department of Social Services, which has long been part of the state DSS network but now the state is pushing much of the infrastructure off on the county.

There are three IT employees there who are not part of Zimmer's department holding together an outdated computer network.

"It is one of two DSS agencies in the state that doesn’t digitize anything," he said. "It’s all paper."

The state delivered 100 "zero-client" computers (meaning all software is on a server, not on the desktop) to DSS but they can't be deloyed because the network won't support them unless it's upgraded to 100 megabits. Currently, it's five megabits.

"(The upgrade is ) never going to happen, so this stuff is going to sit on a pallet shrink wrapped until the cows come home or we get together with state IT and figure out how to upgrade that network or we can get them on our network," Zimmer said. 

Problems like these, he said, he doesn't have time to deal with because of so much time of his time is spent monitoring security threats.

The Genesee County Legislature approved such a position in the 2018 position and yesterday, the county's new compliance officer, Kimberly Mills, was introduced to the Legislature at the Ways and Means Committee meeting held at Genesee Community College's new Student Success Center.

As soon they met her, the committee also agreed to a proposal from County Manager Jay Gsell to increase her new duties. She will also be the county's privacy officer.

Mills is a graduate of Oakfield-Alabama High School, started her college education at GCC, earned her bachelor's degree in Accounting at Roberts Wesleyan University, and her master's in Accounting from the University at Buffalo School of Management.

She's originally from Alabama and now lives in Oakfield.

One reason the job interested her, she said, is she has a passion for Genesee County.

"It’s a new position," Mills said. "I knew it would be a lot of work but I’m always one for new projects and working on new things."

Prior to becoming the compliance officer she was an accountant with Freed Maxick CPAs.

Submitted photos and press release:

The Batavia/Genesee Police and Fire Hockey Team participated in the third annual 2018 Police and Fire Ice Hockey Tournament in Buffalo this past weekend.

Twenty teams participated in the tourney, coming to Buffalo from as far south as South Carolina, and as far north as London, Ontario, Canada.

It was another enjoyable, face-paced weekend for our local boys, who played against teams from Canada, Erie County, and Homeland Security.

All our thanks to those who came out and cheered us on! The team was once again sponsored this year by Ken’s Charcoal Pits & BBQ, with many thanks going to Ken Mistler.

The Genesee County Legislature is having a hard time coming to terms with borrowing $4 million to potentially save $4 million or more on future energy bills.

Not every member of the Legislature believes the cost savings are real, or that the county should borrow that much money on an expectation of saving money years from now.

Legislators Gary Maha and Andrew Young are the most skeptical.

"I appreciate the effort," Young said. "I try to look at everything just as I would for my business. Would I do it? I would not borrow $4 million and hope I got it back over the next 20 years. I don’t know too many business people who would."

He called the idea, from a business perspective, "irrational."

Clattenburg said she looked at it a little differently.

"The rationale is like any homeowner," Clattenburg said. "You buy an energy-efficient furnace and your costs are cut in half and you take saving from the energy cost and use it to pay for your furnace. You talk about (as) if, I was a business. I talk about it as if I were a housewife and I was buying a furnace. That is how I would look at it."

In summary, the proposal involves the county signing an agreement with Johnson Controls that would entail the county borrowing $4 million. Johnson Controls would then act as a contractor for a series of projects intended to reduce energy consumption at county buildings.

Many of the projects are already part of the county's capital investment plans. Over the 20 years, the county would pay $200,000 a year on the loan but save an estimated $200,000 a year in energy costs. Johnson Controls guarantees a certain amount of costs savings realized in each of the first three years of the contract. The county could buy a sort of extended warranty for additional years to guarantee savings, though that isn't really being considered.

County Highway Superintendent Tim Hens first brought the idea to the Legislature in February and the Legislature gave him the green light to put together a resolution to approve a contract with Johnson Controls.

He's been to two committee meetings this week, Public Service on Monday and Ways and Means on Wednesday, to discuss the proposal with legislators. Neither committee has yet to approve the resolutions.

Yesterday, Ways and Means tabled the resolution pending more information on other financing options, such as using $2 million the county has available and borrowing only $2 million, perhaps from another source.

“I don’t just see it as a loser," Hens said during a 30-minute robust discussion of the proposal Wednesday. "I think it’s a good deal for the county. I wouldn’t be here for my third committee meeting pushing it so heavily if I didn’t think it was a great idea for the county.”

The benefits as laid out by Hens, County Treasurer Scott German, and the legislators who support it -- Shelly Stein, Marianne Clattenburg, John Deleo, and John Hilchey -- include:

• Front-loading paying for several capital-improvement projects that the county will have to pay for eventually anyway;
• If the contract is signed by May 30, an interest rate of 3.5 percent is locked in (the Federal Reserve is planning three interest rate hikes this year);
• Getting the work done before inflation drives up the costs;
• Shifting some of the operational expense of energy from an expense against property taxes into an expense against sales taxes, which frees up space for other expenses under the tax cap;
• Saving maintenance and repair costs on old and failing equipment;
• Ensuring employees are working in safe and comfortable buildings that currently need significant repairs

Maha said he isn't against the idea of getting the work done, but he isn't comfortable on taking on a $4 million loan with a 20-year payoff, especially when the county is looking at a potential expense of $45 million or more for a new jail.

"The timing of it bothers me," Maha said. "I understand the benefits of the energy efficiency at the county buildings but I look at my home, you know, I haven’t put any energy into my home until I have the money. I don’t think my constituents want me to say 'yeah, go ahead and borrow $4 million' when we’ve got other projects out there that will cost the county millions of dollars.”

Not every project in this proposal will, by themselves, lead to cost savings. Putting a new roof on the highway garage, for example, won't reduce energy costs but it must be done and it can be included in the contract. Making it part of the Johnson Controls contract takes it out of the list of other capital projects the county must pay for using the existing capital budget.

Most of the cost savings actually come from some of the smaller projects, such as switching lighting in county buildings to more energy-efficient systems.

Some projects, such as replacing the eight air handlers on the roof of County Building #2, will both reduce energy costs and save maintenance costs.

"Right now we spend a ton of time repairing broken air handlers in Building #2," Hens said on Wednesday. "We don’t have great job-costing software to be able to track exactly what we spend, but I can tell you, Terry and the other guys have a lot of overtime going in after hours to fix air handlers or going to the jail to repair the boiler."

Deleo admitted to some skepticism of the proposal but near the end of the discussion Wednesday, he said he had warmed to it.

"So you’re saying right now cash is cheap, so let’s lock it in at the low rate and keep that over the 20 years because it’s cheap now, and then we’ll keep our cash in reserves and if things go off, we always have the cash, and cash is king, as they say," Deleo said. "I’m not as negative against this anymore as I hear it more and more."

Young said he doesn't think the savings is sufficient enough to justify taking on $4 million in debt. Using a calculation provided by Johnson Controls called Net Present Value, Young said there are essentially no savings.

The initial NPV calculation showed only $1,357 in savings on the value of the money, but Hens said with a lower financing rate, the new calculation is $38,519.

"I’m not 100-percent confident, there’s no guarantee it’s going to pay for itself in 20 years," Young said.

Net Present Value is a term economists use to try and determine the value of money today against the value of money at some point in the future. The calculations can get complicated. A straight calculation of $4 million today versus the value of that money in 20 years would, at a steady rate of 2-percent annual inflation, be $2.7 million.

Such straight-line calculations through having little predictive value. We don't know what the rate of inflation will be in each year, what interest rates might be in future years (if money isn't borrowed now and is instead borrowed on a project-by-project basis in coming years); and in this case, how the cost of energy will change over 20 years.

Maha is concerned about placing bets on the prediction of the future, he said. Who knows what technology changes will come in 20 years? He suggested in 20 years, whoever is still around in county government will have no real knowledge of why the loan exists and what purpose it served.

"I want to reiterate that my concern is, I don't care if it's $1 million or $4 million, I don't like the 20 years," Maha said. "Who knows what is going to happen 20 years down the road. Who is going to look back in 20 years and remember why we did this?"

Clattenburg countered, “We might look back in 20 years and say look at all the money we saved over the 20 years.”

Both Hens and German made the point a couple of times during the discussion that the estimated saving presented by Johnson Controls should be considered "conservative" estimates that the actual cost savings should be higher. Johnson Controls, Hens noted, with the first-three-year guarantee on its estimates, doesn't want to overestimate and wind up owing the county money, so their estimates are cautious.

Clattenburg, who chairs Ways and Means, was perhaps the staunchest proponent of the Johnson Controls proposal.

“If we don’t do this and we go the other route (paying for each project individually), don’t come to me to override the tax cap at any point," Clattenburg said. "I hope you are willing to do that if we don’t go this way because that’s what’s going to happen."

Neither legislators Bob Bausch nor Gregg Torrey expressed an overt opinion on whether they will support the proposed contract. But Bausch suggested that maybe the county could use current capital project funds along with some reserves, up to about $2 million, to reduce the amount of money borrowed. That would both reduce the total amount of interest paid and reduce the length of the loan, perhaps to as little as six years.

Hens said that would mean going to another firm for financing and losing the guaranteed 3.5 percent rate. German said he would have to gather estimates but the rate wouldn't be guaranteed until the county was actually ready to take out the loan, which could be two months.

The committee agreed to table the resolution until German is able to report back on that option.

CLARIFICATIONS: We should have pointed out in the body of the story that the estimated cost savings on utility bills alone if the loan is taken out is $117,250. Hens says that's a conservative estimate based on an inflation rate of 3 percent over 20 years. He said the actual rate since 1998 has been 3.9 percent and going back to 1958, the averaged annual rate of inflation for energy costs has been 4.32 percent. If either of those figures hold true, he said, the county will save substantially more.